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  1. DKJr is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/15/2011 8:35pm

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     Style: Combat Cuddling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well I found an example of a Gracie Garage located in the same city that has a gym with two Black belt instructors, and a university club run by a purple belt. (I.E. Where I go to college).

    So apparently people will set these up and not go to real gyms located near them for whatever reason. Here is the details of that Garage, watch the video and gain a clearer picture of the type of training environment that occurs in these Gracie Garages. I will concede however that the guy running it is just a white belt, but if you watch the video he mentions training at a real school for a year. Thoughts?

    https://www.gracieuniversity.com/LC/...37615798879415
  2. Punisher is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/15/2011 8:53pm

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     Style: Five Animal Fighting

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by David Koresh Jr. View Post
    Well I found an example of a Gracie Garage located in the same city that has a gym with two Black belt instructors, and a university club run by a purple belt. (I.E. Where I go to college).

    So apparently people will set these up and not go to real gyms located near them for whatever reason. Here is the details of that Garage, watch the video and gain a clearer picture of the type of training environment that occurs in these Gracie Garages. I will concede however that the guy running it is just a white belt, but if you watch the video he mentions training at a real school for a year. Thoughts?

    https://www.gracieuniversity.com/LC/...37615798879415
    I watched the video and didn't really see anything wrong with it. As many people, including myself have pointed out not all BJJ gyms are created equal. Just because there are other BJJ gyms in Waco, it doesn't mean they teach what this guy wants to know, at a price he can afford, during times that fit his schedule etc.

    Let's also say for instance that this guy really likes the Gracie Combatives Program and wants to learn BJJ in an official GJJ school. According to the Gracie University website the nearest affiliated academy is over two hours away.

    https://www.gracieuniversity.com/LC/...3QJ4TGT7X&n=28

    That is why Gracie Garages exist.
  3. DKJr is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/15/2011 9:06pm

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     Style: Combat Cuddling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Punisher View Post
    I watched the video and didn't really see anything wrong with it.
    Uhhhh did you watch them rolling? Now I have no context as to their time training, but when you make claims like "good fundamentals" and your rolling looks like that even after a month of training...

    However speaking from a personal experience the other gym does have high prices, but they most certainly focus on self defense especially within your first couple of months. As well as yes the other gym is far away.

    My point is that the length of time it would take for them to develop even competent levels of grappling through that system/atmosphere would be a ridiculous amount of time. This example stands a proving point that training in a legitimate school is the only way to go, otherwise you're just crappling never really improving.

    This reinforces the stance that grappling can't be learned properly without a more technically proficient training partner present. Thus this method is inherently flawed.



    Edit: Let me say that I don't find fault with them trying to learn. Only with the system itself.
    Last edited by DKJr; 2/15/2011 9:28pm at .
  4. Punisher is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/15/2011 9:33pm

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     Style: Five Animal Fighting

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by David Koresh Jr. View Post
    Uhhhh did you watch them rolling? Now I have no context as to their time training, but when you make claims like "good fundamentals" and your rolling looks like that even after a month of training...
    I don't think you can judge the quality of training from a video like that. Besides, I'm positive I can go into any BJJ gym and find two white belts rolling looking as bad or worse.

    In any case the rear naked choke is lesson 5 in the Gracie Combatives program. If they were following the course exactly how it's laid out, that's less than a month of training.

    If the video was showing one of their video testings, you may have an agrument. The purpose of the video isn't to show how awesome their BJJ is, it is show where they train, what equipment is available, and the types of guys that train there.
  5. DKJr is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/15/2011 9:49pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Punisher View Post
    I don't think you can judge the quality of training from a video like that.
    I could in person, but like I said it doesn't matter that they suck. What matters is that the standards for promotion and system of online training is a flawed approach for transferring martial ability.
  6. Punisher is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/15/2011 9:52pm

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     Style: Five Animal Fighting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    BTW,

    There are examples of Gracie Combatives Blue Belt tests available at https://www.gracieuniversity.com/LC/...3QJ4TGT7X&n=28

    You have to create a Gracie University profile, but it is free. Once you have profile, you can view the first ever video test, the first ever video test failure complete with comments on what the guy did wrong, and several other examples what the Gracies require for their video testing.
  7. DKJr is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/15/2011 10:00pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Watched a couple already long before I posted in this thread. My opinion still stands.
  8. Punisher is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/15/2011 10:20pm

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     Style: Five Animal Fighting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Care to elaborate? What about the videos indicated to you that the guys shown as "good" examples didn't understand the techincal aspects of the moves required and couldn't use them adequately to defend themsevles against someone else that doesn't know BJJ?

    I've compared the videos to BJJ tests I've seen on-line and in person and for what is supposed to be covered I didn't really see any difference.

    You can agrue that the GC test don't include things not in the GC program such as sparring, any techniques requiring the gi, any techniques for someone who also knows BJJ, etc, but I don't see how one can agrue that the program is incapable of teaching the techniques it claims to.
  9. DKJr is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/15/2011 10:48pm

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     Style: Combat Cuddling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Punisher View Post
    Care to elaborate? What about the videos indicated to you that the guys shown as "good" examples didn't understand the techincal aspects of the moves required and couldn't use them adequately to defend themsevles against someone else that doesn't know BJJ?

    I've compared the videos to BJJ tests I've seen on-line and in person and for what is supposed to be covered I didn't really see any difference.

    You can agrue that the GC test don't include things not in the GC program such as sparring, any techniques requiring the gi, any techniques for someone who also knows BJJ, etc, but I don't see how one can agrue that the program is incapable of teaching the techniques it claims to.
    Sparring is essential to show that you CAN apply the techniques against someone. The video below is an example of someone knowing the techniques, however how can you determine if he can apply the techniques? I certainly can't until I roll with him or someone else rolls with him that I've rolled with.

    Determining belt level in BJJ is difficult, once again I'm reinforcing the stance that belts shouldn't be distributed through online because the ability to transfer actual grappling skills is difficult.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pC7q6...9125A21A77F02D
  10. DKJr is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/15/2011 10:54pm

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     Style: Combat Cuddling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Punisher View Post
    but I don't see how one can agrue that the program is incapable of teaching the techniques it claims to.
    Teaching the techniques it claims is interesting, do they "know" the techniques ? Probably. Can they use them against someone in a full resistance setting? Doubtful.

    Yes they "know" the moves, but can they use them in a resisting situation? No because if they haven't sparred, then they haven't had the resistance necessary to learnt he unteachable aspects of grappling that are inherent with mat time.

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