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  1. Brian R. VanCise is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    2/23/2010 9:28am


     Style: IRT/FMA/BJJ/BUDO TAIJUTSU

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sley View Post
    actually its worse than doing nothing.

    On the street Belt Idea, perhaps they could give out those Krav style certs, or what Carlson Jr. Gave out.

    Finally I wear a belt that is black cloth with my Jeans, Am I a street BB :)
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintanon View Post
    Gonzo, without an instructor to guide you there is a very good chance that you're going to spend a lot of your time practicing techniques incorrectly, or neglecting the nuances that actually make them work. It's just like any other skilled physical activity. You CAN eventually, through trial and error, muddle your way through to a level of competence, but you'll make much faster and much better progress even going just once a week to train with a real instructor in a real class where you can receive immediate correction for improper techniques.

    Practicing something 10,000 times doesn't do **** for you if you are practicing it wrong.
    Absolutely and unfortunately people who want to learn by themselves just will not figure this out. It simply is to convenient! Hey I can spend a couple of hundred dollars and learn at my own pace. Yahhhhhh! I have met people who thought they new what they were doing via video tape training and inevitably they were beaten soundly by someone who spent some time in an academy. You need an instructor and you need constant correction and your previous martial experience might help a bit but you need to learn from a real live instructor. Otherwise in the end you are wasting your time!
  2. gonzomalan is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/23/2010 11:08am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by slideyfoot View Post
    Certificates, related to the old tape series I mentioned here. Advert for that old series here.
    oh right, i forgot about that.
  3. gonzomalan is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/25/2010 4:03am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    two things occurred to me recently that i'd like to share here.
    the first is an expansion on what i said before: practicing at home or with a group of people makes the training schedule conform to that person or group. i think the advantage of this is really under-appreciated, considering some people doing this don't watch MMA fights, or if they do, they barely know the difference between guard and side mount. thus, the initial feelings of awkwardness may be more frustrating if you're barely starting to learn about grappling in a dojo and you have to move faster than you can absorb the technique. the first time i put someone in my guard, it felt really weird, both because i haven't been used to having someone between my legs, and because i'm not used to crossing my feet behind them.
    the other thing that occurred to me, is what R&R said in the intro class: there's good and bad teachers, and if i'm watching the videos, paying attention to all the details, and i'm not doing it right, it's their fault. granted, i already wrote a bit about the responsibility i have in training/monitoring the technique, but if they're willing to put that much responsibility on themselves as instructors, it just gives me more confidence, besides the fact that i tend to be very nit picky.
  4. beardedtaco is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/25/2010 7:59am


     Style: BJJ/MT/MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    thus, the initial feelings of awkwardness may be more frustrating if you're barely starting to learn about grappling in a dojo and you have to move faster than you can absorb the technique.
    I just don't buy this.

    Firstly, to challenge yourself is a good thing.

    Secondly, I've never seen or experienced this in my mma gym, or in any of the other schools/styles I have visited & trained in over the years. Every teacher I've had has always been careful to assess each student and to let us develop at our own pace. At the same time the better teachers I've had, have always tried to get us to challenge ourselves to move beyond our "comfort zones" and pre-determined limits.

    there's good and bad teachers, and if i'm watching the videos, paying attention to all the details, and i'm not doing it right, it's their fault.
    I used to think the same thing. I have a VERY analytical and technical way of viewing MA techniques and breaking them down for myself. It's something I've always been able to do. I can watch a technique enough times so that before I even practice it I feel that I understand what makes it work. That didn't mean **** when I went and got my ass handed to me by the white belts at the mma gym I now train at.

    but if they're willing to put that much responsibility on themselves as instructors, it just gives me more confidence, besides the fact that i tend to be very nit picky.
    It really shouldn't. I'm the most "nit picky" person I know when it comes to technique. And let me tell you people like us make assumptions that are not always correct.

    If you really want to do the self-teaching thing, it's ultimately your choice. But may I recommend you pay a friendly visit to a BJJ school and test yourself away from your closed group every month or so ? Just a friendly visit to roll with some of the white belts who have been training in a school as long as you have been learning at home. That is the only way you will know if you're actually learning ( besides being assaulted on the streets which I hope never happens ! ) is to see how you fare against the rest of the grappling world.

    The parts of the course I've seen look to be amazing quality for a video instructional. But not to encourage competition just doesn't sit right with me.

    For the record, I train MMA and have no current intention of competing. I do compete in BJJ, but there are several people who train in our school who have no intention of ever competing in any way. They just want to learn some self-defense and burn off some steam after work. Those guys are still at a big advantage over people teaching themselves off videos vs personal instruction IMO.

    In my current school, people give their opinion and help people with technique all the time. We are encouraged by our coaches to do so and they have never once made someone feel stupid about giving bad advice or asking "silly" questions. They simply show us why something does or doesn't work by example and our understanding grows.
  5. Mtripp is offline
    Mtripp's Avatar

    Choked out by Gene Lebell

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    Posted On:
    2/25/2010 11:14am

    supporting member
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by slideyfoot View Post
    Certificates, related to the old tape series I mentioned here. Advert for that old series here.
    I was a part of that program. In fact you can find my cert from them and my number is #2. It ended my problem with Rorion threatening to sue me every month or so.

    It was a solid program. They wanted me to come and test for my blue belt; but the cost was $2000 and I said thanks but no thanks. They did make it clear there was a difference in the programs.

    Of course, this was years ago....
    "Out of every hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back." -- Hericletus, circa 500 BC
  6. Sley is offline

    mr. Hobbes

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    Posted On:
    2/25/2010 10:46pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtripp View Post
    I was a part of that program. In fact you can find my cert from them and my number is #2. It ended my problem with Rorion threatening to sue me every month or so.

    It was a solid program. They wanted me to come and test for my blue belt; but the cost was $2000 and I said thanks but no thanks. They did make it clear there was a difference in the programs.

    Of course, this was years ago....
    wait, what?

    Can you please please please tell the whole story

    also $2000, that's ridiculous,unless he's cheating you

    Carlson Jr. charges like $100 (or maybe it was $75, can't recall I've never met him, just heard so from a guy who trained under him) a piece, but my prices maybe highly skewed as I compete for Carlson Gracie Jujitsu, so I might be getting in-gym prices
    Last edited by Sley; 2/25/2010 11:07pm at .
  7. core1065 is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    2/25/2010 11:36pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Krav M,BJJ,Judo,Shinbodu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The scary thing is that these are the same guys teaching the U.S. Army...
  8. Sley is offline

    mr. Hobbes

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    Posted On:
    2/25/2010 11:46pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by core1065 View Post
    The scary thing is that these are the same guys teaching the U.S. Army...
    why, their quality of instruction is good; their video method is the only qualm we have with them.
  9. core1065 is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/26/2010 12:16am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Krav M,BJJ,Judo,Shinbodu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My problem with them is that they convinced the army brass to implement many of the fallacies that they promote on the Gracie Academy online course. Like punches are an ineffective way to end a fight, groin strikes are ineffective, multiple attackers are unlikely and majority of your combatives training should be on the ground.

    But that's my own opinion.
    Last edited by core1065; 2/26/2010 12:27am at .
  10. gonzomalan is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/26/2010 3:20am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by core1065 View Post
    My problem with them is that they convinced the army brass to implement many of the fallacies that they promote on the Gracie Academy online course. Like punches are an ineffective way to end a fight, groin strikes are ineffective, multiple attackers are unlikely and majority of your combatives training should be on the ground.

    But that's my own opinion.
    de jure, this is untrue. look for the Army combatives field manual.

    table of contents:
    1. introduction
    2. training
    3. basic ground-fighting techniques
    4. advanced ground-fighting techniques
    5. takedowns and throws
    6. strikes
    7. handheld weapons
    8. standing defense
    9. group tactics

    "1-1. DEFINITION OF COMBATIVES
    Hand-to-hand combat is an engagement between two or more persons in an empty-handed struggle or with hand-held weapons such as knives, sticks, or projectile weapons that cannot be fired. Proficiency in hand-to-hand combat is one of the fundamental building blocks for training the modern soldier.
    1-2. PURPOSES OF COMBATIVES TRAINING
    Soldiers must be prepared to use different levels of force in an environment where conflict may change from low intensity to high intensity over a matter of hours. Many military operations, such as peacekeeping missions or noncombatant evacuation, may restrict the use of deadly weapons. Hand-to-hand combatives training will save lives when an unexpected confrontation occurs."

    under the section 1-4 Safety
    "f. Striking. Striking is an inefficient way to incapacitate an enemy. Strikes are, however, an important part of an overall fight strategy and can be very effective in manipulating the opponent into unfavorable positions. Striking can be practiced with various types of protective padding such as boxing gloves. Defense can be practiced using reduced force blows. Training should be continuously focused on the realities of fighting."

    on a more related note, appendix b addresses competitions:
    "A look at the history of combatives systems reveals two fundamental mistakes, both of which are related to competition. The first mistake is having no form of competition, which is generally due to the thought that the techniques are “too dangerous” for competitions. Although many techniques are too dangerous for live competition, many benefits can be gained by competing even in a limited set of techniques. The boxer is a better puncher than the traditional martial artist not because of the mechanics of punching, but because his technique has been refined through competition.
    [...]
    The other mistake is that once a method of competition has been selected, training will naturally become focused on winning at competition rather than on winning in combat. To gain the benefits from competition without falling into the trap of a competitive focus, the unit must have a graduated system of competition rules."

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