It's a Sad Day - Gracie University

**gonzomalan** · Posted On: 10/13/2009 10:05pm

Originally Posted by Sley

I think people also have a problem with their claims that, it won't work in tournaments but it will on T3H St33ts

but at least a good NHB match could prove them otherwise.

yeah, there should be a good amount of crossover, but i think they added that in to cover their asses. plus, striking isn't allowing in tourneys, as taught in the rnc and guard passing lessons.

**Sley** · Posted On: 10/13/2009 10:45pm

Originally Posted by gonzomalan

yeah, there should be a good amount of crossover, but i think they added that in to cover their asses. plus, striking isn't allowing in tourneys, as taught in the rnc and guard passing lessons.

I will say I kind of have an interest in their 36 moves of doom, they seem like a good assortment

1. Trap and Role Escape
2. Americana Armlock
3. Positional Control Mount
4. Take the Back (Mount)
5. Rear Naked Choke
6. Leg Hook Takedown
7. Clinch (Aggressive Opponent)
8. Punch Block Series (Stages 1-4)
9. Straight Armlock (Mount)
10. Triangle Choke
11. Elevator Sweep
12. Elbow Escape (Mount)
13. Positional Control (Side Mount)
14. Body Fold Takedown
15. Clinch (Conservative Opponent)
16. Headlock Counters
17. Double Leg Takedown
18. Headlock Escape 1
19. Straight Armlock (Guard)
20. Double Ankle Sweep
21. Pull Guard
22. Headlock Escape 2
23. Guillotine Choke
24. Shrimp Escape
25. Kimura Armlock
26. Standing Headlock Defense
27. Punch Block Series (Stage 5)
28. Hook Sweep
29. Rear Takedown
30. Haymaker Punch Defense
31. Take the Back (Guard)
32. Guillotine Defense
33. Elbow Escape (Side Mount)
34. Standing Armlock
35. Twisting Arm Control
36. Double Underhook Guard Pass

I will say that these moves would definably form a good base for BJJ.

Hell my most recent tournament match was won with only 3 moves (excluding the chokes from the back, but I won on points so **** it, hell I tried an Americana to but that also he no relation to winning)

(he pulled guard)
Guard pass where you put one shin on their calf and have the other inside
Pass half guard to mount
Take the back from mount (to counter his mount escape)

but if it was life and death, Rabbit punches from back mount...

**Punisher** · Posted On: 10/14/2009 12:04am

After seeing this thread and reading slideyfoot's review I decided to buy the Gracie Combative DVD's and enroll in Gracie University. Honestly I've been looking for a program like this since 2005.

In 2005 I spent a year training at a Rickson Gracie school. My main goal was to learn some grappling that I could integrate into the self-defesne skills I had from other arts. Despite the instructor giving me the "difference between GJJ and BJJ" speech (i.e. structured training and self-defense focus) I ended up being very disappointed. Sure there was a piece of paper listing the moves I have to learn before blue belt, but there was no guidance on what should be learned first and we spent most of class time working on things not even on the list. Everything was done with a gi starting on the ground, and honestly about 80% was stuff I could never see myself using in a self defense situation.

One Saturday's there was a self-defesne focused class, where we wore T shirts, started on our feet, and worked stuff similar to what is in the Gracie Combatives curriculum. I loved it, but I couldn't justify paying $90 per month for one class a week so I quit. I tried some other BJJ schools in the area and couldn't find what I was looking for and eventually stopped looking.

Last year I decided to give it another try using a different approach. Instead of group classes I decided to try private lessons. I went to several BJJ schools in the area and told them exactly what a wanted. I asked for structured, self-defense oriented plan to get to around blue belt level. I made it clear I wasn't really interest in rank and was only menitioning "blue belt" because I saw it a rank where people seem to have a solid grasp of the the basic fundamentals that leads to a signifcant advantage over someone who doesn't know anything about grappling. Most schools refused to even teach me. The one that did just had me grapple standing up with a purple belt for an hour while a black belt watched and shout vague directions. After two lessons of that I gave up again. Now I finally feel I have a path to get what I want.

I don't have any illusions that these DVDs will make me BJJ master. That's not what I want. I just want to be able to out grapple the general population. I have people to drill and roll with, including a guy who is a BB in judo and a Pedro Sauer blue belt. I'm most interested in the detailed techincal instruction and structured program to follow.

All that being said, once I make through the program I may actually send in tape with my "blue belt test". Why? So I can at least see what the Gracie University curriculum after blue belt is like.

**Ben Grimm** · Posted On: 10/14/2009 12:24am

I still think they're sell outs

**slideyfoot** · Posted On: 10/14/2009 2:59am

Originally Posted by gonzomalan

plus, he sold his interest in the UFC after having to institute these things called "rules".

Hmm: I don't think that was the reason (or at least not the only reason), particularly as Rorion sold his interest in W.O.W (the promotion company he set up with Art Davie for the purposes of putting on the UFC) after UFC V. At that point, there weren't many more rules than at UFC I (though there had been a time limit in the Gracie-Shamrock superfight, which pissed Rorion off), and IIRC, those 'rules' were still just fining offences rather than something that would get you disqualified.

The reason, as ever, appears to have been money. He thought he could go set up another event, but claims he got screwed over by Art Davie:

Originally Posted by Clyde Gentry, No Holds Barred, p91 (UK paperback edition)

If the show was to move forward, something had to change. According to Rorion, "Art had gotten into cahoots with Bob and wanted me out of the decision-making process. They thought, 'Let's find a way to get Rorion out of this.' So, Art came to me and said 'Let's sell WOW.' He told me he was tired of it and it wasn't going to work."

Rorion didn't want to sell, knowing that more money was to be made. BUt he relented, if only because a new show was in the works, as he and Davie had discussed. On April 19, just twelve days after UFC V, Rorion Gracie and Art Davie sold their share of the UFC to Bob Meyrowitz. "We had an international event that spawned one of the best franchises on pay-per-view," said Meyrowitz. "We needed to step up the production and rules had to be changed." Gracie, for his part, believed that judges would never perceive that a fighter on the bottom of a ground match might possibly win.

Gracie signed a two-year non-competition clause but knew there was a way around it. "As soon as we sold WOW, Art and I went to meet with some guys in Chicago about another show. They decided not to do the deal, and Art gets hired the next day to work for SEG [as matchmaker]. It got to show me what type of person Art was and I wasn't happy about that. I felt betrayed."

Naturally that's just one perspective, but the thing I like about Gentry's book is that he went to first hand sources for interviews. Good research in there, as far as I can tell.

slidey's training log, it seems even just training with his girlfriend has gotten some of the techniques in the Combatives series to become useful or natural for him, and he is a Roger Gracie blue belt. (note: i don't mean to speak for him, i respectfully mention this because this is one example i think would be useful here).

Yep, specifically on maintaining mount, so Lesson Three. The instruction is very good: that most definitely is not the problem with these DVDs. Though I would add I'm a pretty crappy blue belt. :icon_wink

**Kid Miracleman** · Posted On: 10/14/2009 3:24am

The following promotional video for Gracie University was recently posted on GracieAcademy's YouTube channel:

YouTube - Gracie University Commercial

**Ben Grimm** · Posted On: 10/14/2009 3:41am

OK, I had a look. My former coach didn't even make blue belt, but I've registered just to have a look. I'm going to admit that maybe my initial judgement was wrong. I disagree with the whole online learnng bit, but the material does look (from my limited experience) solid.

**sapateiro** · Posted On: 10/14/2009 5:32am

I teach this combatives programme here in Cape Town, where self defense is a very useful attribute. Just this weekend, two of our students successfully used the techniques & reflexes they have learnt to defend themselves.

1. Elliot was at a soccer match. A bunch of guys started kicking off & punches were flying. Elliot used slipping the haymaker/rear takedown/maintaining the mount (he then raised his arm to get the guy to roll)/mata leao. The guy went to sleep. Elliot didn't throw any strikes. Elliot is a 2 or 3 stripe white belt who's been training about 6 months.

2. Craig was stood at an ATM and it was taking a bit of time. A guy waiting to use the ATM got pissed off & gave a little verbal abuse before charging at him. Craig used a simple guillotine, making sure he caught the carotid to put the guy to sleep. Again Craig didn't use any strikes and was surprised how easy it was to use the reflexes he developed. He's yet to get his first stripe on the white belt.

We hear this stuff all the time, and although none of our students start fights, they always finish them. So regardless of the media & testing method used, the techniques & methods of instruction are sound and 'fit for purpose' ie. preparing you to fight an untrained attacker on the street.

**CrackFox** · Posted On: 10/14/2009 5:48am

Your pudding came out soggy.

They're not internet students. They're learning in a gym under the supervision of a brown-belt.

**Sley** · Posted On: 10/14/2009 7:56pm

Originally Posted by CrackFox

Your pudding came out soggy.

They're not internet students. They're learning in a gym under the supervision of a brown-belt.

I don't see how in any way the performance of his students has any relation to the performance of people who learn it on the web.

I am taking interest in this program though, it seems useful and such, but I don't like the belt testing part...