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  1. Matt Phillips is offline
    Matt Phillips's Avatar

    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

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    May 2002
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    Bahstun
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    Posted On:
    3/12/2009 12:08am

    supporting member
     Style: Submission Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by SifuAbel View Post
    I predicted this years ago. And this probably isn't the first mcdojoism of GJJ.

    "It could never happen because X etc" , they said.

    ......told you so........

    :karated:

    How this helps me; I haven't the foggiest. I was just right, it was inevitable. It happens to EVERY MA. It actually helps you more that its been reported here and you have to deal with it. I'm surprised it hasn't been buried by troll spam, like some embarrassing uncle at a party, and swept under the rug. Nice going bullshido, there is hope for some of you yet.
    If you read Black Belt magazine in the 90's (c'mon, you're among friends) you would remember that Carlson, jr tried this exact same thing back then. He had his stupid 2 page ads all over the damn thing. Or did you predict that in the 80's.
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
  2. pugghead is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/12/2009 1:19am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: rugby

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Petter View Post
    Where did this come from? What standard?

    Just in case, I'll note that this isn't Gracie Barra. Neither Ryron nor Pedro are Gracie Barra blackbelts. In fact, since Gracie Jiu-jitsu is trademarked by whatever-branch of Helio's family, and the Gracie Barra lineage comes from Carlos Gracie Sr. rather than Helio, it's technically "BJJ" rather than "GJJ".

    Right now, that gives me some measure of relief.
    you gotta be careful saying this.... Helio's family/son's
    aren't unified just under one school you know.

    Quote Originally Posted by TEA View Post
    Who controls the Gracie name in terms of Gracie Jiu Jitsu? I can't imagine that all of Helio's sons agree with this.
    my school is under direct lineage with Rolyer's Gracie Humaita in Brazil. None of this Gracie university stuff has anything to do with him, or his brother Rolker.
    www.academiagracie.com.br/

    I also assume it has nothing to with Rickson, Robin and Royce who all have their own schools as well.

    The Gracie University is ONLY connected WITH the "The GJJ Acdemy" http://www.gracieacademy.com which is controlled by Rorion and his sons... (i think it's HQ is in California. You know The where al bundy and Dr 90210 train....and where you can by the juice bag!)
    Last edited by pugghead; 3/12/2009 1:45am at .
  3. migo is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    3/12/2009 1:22am


     Style: Baboo Baby

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah, this is basically a Rorion thing, which was endorsed by Helio while he was alive.

    What I'm curious about is how other guys, like Rickson, will react to people with GJJ belts.
  4. SifuAbel is offline
    SifuAbel's Avatar

    Hole in one.

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    Posted On:
    3/12/2009 9:21am

    Join us... or die
     Style: LongFist CMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by War Wheel View Post
    If you read Black Belt magazine in the 90's (c'mon, you're among friends) you would remember that Carlson, jr tried this exact same thing back then. He had his stupid 2 page ads all over the damn thing. Or did you predict that in the 80's.
    :pottytrai

    Nobody gave a **** in the early 90's enough to remember, or even know about, that bit of useless trivia. BBmagazine was for assholes, i didn't read it. And it sure as heck didn't make a dent on this board in 2k.
  5. TEA is offline
    TEA's Avatar

    Now iz BBQ Timez?

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    Posted On:
    3/12/2009 9:41am

    Join us... or die
     Style: TKD, Relson GJJ, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by migo View Post
    What I'm curious about is how other guys, like Rickson, will react to people with GJJ belts.
    That's why I asked the question regarding the Gracie name and who control's it. I not only wonder what Helio's other sons think of this and how they'll react (if they do at all), but also all of their black belts who don't want to see GJJ associated with McDojoism.
    Mushi mo atsui hodo
    Mushiatsui

    Originally Posted by chuey
    ...Well **** if that isn't the most anti-Mr. Miyagi **** I have heard in ages.

    Two wrongs don't make a right, but
    Three rights make a left.
  6. slideyfoot is offline
    slideyfoot's Avatar

    Artemis BJJ Co-Founder/Instructor

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    Posted On:
    3/12/2009 10:39am

    Business Class Supporting Membersupporting member
     Artemis BJJ | Brazilian Jiu Jitsu in Bristol Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TEA View Post
    That's why I asked the question regarding the Gracie name and who control's it. I not only wonder what Helio's other sons think of this and how they'll react (if they do at all), but also all of their black belts who don't want to see GJJ associated with McDojoism.
    As far as I'm aware, Rorion's old trademark on Gracie Jiu Jitsu was contested by Carley Gracie: while Carley didn't win the overall case, he did make some progress on the trademark issue. At least that's the impression I get according to this, but as that's from 2000 and I'm also no lawyer, I could be wrong:

    Quote Originally Posted by Rorion vs Carley legal proceedings
    The district court ruled on the post-trial motions on March 13, 1998. The court denied Carley's motion for a new trial. The court also made minor amendments to its findings of fact and conclusions of law. As requested by Rorion, the district court entered a permanent injunction prohibiting Carley from using any logo similar to Rorion's Triangle Design logo. The district court also awarded Rorion $620,000 in attorneys' fees. Finally, the district court entered an amended judgment, in which it (1) entered judgment in favor of Rorion on his claim of infringement of the Triangle Design logo; (2) entered judgment in favor of Carley on Rorion's claim of infringement of the "Gracie Jiu-Jitsu" name; (3) declared that Rorion "do[es] not have a valid service mark for the name GRACIE JIUJITSU, " as requested by Carley's motion to amend the judgment; (4) awarded Rorion $108,000 on his Triangle Design logo counterclaim, the amount of Carley's profits as found by the jury; and (5) confirmed the grant of permanent injunctive relief to Rorion, as requested by Rorion's motion to amend the judgment.

    Both sides filed notices of appeal. Carley noticed his intent to appeal the portion of the amended judgment relating to the Triangle Design logo and various pretrial rulings (including the summary judgmentruling on his cancellation claim). Rorion noticed his intent to appeal the portion of the amended judgment stating that he had no valid service mark in "Gracie Jiu-Jitsu."

    On May 12, 1998, Carley filed a motion for an award of attorneys' fees, based on the amended judgment, for his successful defense against Rorion's claim of infringement of the "Gracie Jiu-Jitsu" name. Rorion opposed the motion. The district court denied Carley's motion for attorneys' fees; Carley filed a notice of appeal from that order as well.

    All three appeals (Carley's two appeals and Rorion's cross-appeal) were consolidated by order of this court. Rorion's cross appeal was dismissed for failure to prosecute.
    I'm not sure how important the Gracie Jiu Jitsu brand is in comparison to the term Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. BJJ has become the accepted term: for a crude comparison, "brazilian jiu jitsu" (with those quotes: results are different without) gets 1.2 million hits on Google, while "gracie jiu jitsu" receives 191,000 . So perhaps this continuing effort by Rorion to push the self defence angle is an attempt to finally make that distinction totally clear, as I presume GJJ has a much lower market share of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu now than it did, say, 10 or 15 years ago.

    It would appear that as has been mentioned in this thread and numerous times in the past, GJJ will simply become the TMA self-defence version of BJJ. Rorion's comment in the free handbook you can download from the Gracie University site really drives that home:

    Quote Originally Posted by p8
    At the Gracie Jiu-Jitsu Academy, our primary concern is to preserve the techniques as they were developed and practiced by the Grand Master so that we can effectively teach them to the greatest number of people. [...]

    If you dilute your training with impure, unrealistic, sport applications of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu, you will hinder your ability to respond quickly and effectively with the right technique.
    Very definition of a TMA: preservation rather than evolution.
  7. ShauneP82 is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/12/2009 1:53pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah, that makes since. Lets honor somebody by making a shitty video to make money off of. You losers are douche bags. Drop dead.
  8. Diesel_tke is offline
    Diesel_tke's Avatar

    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    3/12/2009 4:59pm

    supporting member
     Style: stick,Taiji, mountainbike

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ShauneP82 View Post
    Yeah, that makes since. Lets honor somebody by making a shitty video to make money off of. You losers are douche bags. Drop dead.
    Umm...who are you talking to? Us or them?


    So I understand where they are going with this. As I looked at the site last night, they have money making all over the place. You can buy mats from them, shirts, Gis, and you will need the instructional material. Either buy the combatives DVDs for 140 dollars, or buy each individual lesson for like 8 dollars. Then pay for your exam. Presto---blue belt.

    They will make a **** load of money off it. I'm glad that we will now be able to destiguish between GJJ and BJJ. This will put a pretty bad mark on the GJJ credability.

    But in reality, the only place a BJJ belt matters is in the eye of the beholder. If you go to a no gi tournament, it doesn't matter what your belt is. If you go to a gi tournament it will matter but then again everyone sandbags any way. So you may as well enter in as a white belt any way.

    So what is the point of this whole belt system any way. Screw it all. Sambo has it right...belts are for keeping kurtka closed...otherwise just roll.
  9. MrBadGuy is offline
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    King of the Impossible

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    Posted On:
    3/12/2009 6:06pm

    supporting member
     Style: Grapplomancer

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You forgot the most important function of belts. Belts are also for bragging about on internet forums, silly!
  10. TEA is offline
    TEA's Avatar

    Now iz BBQ Timez?

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    Posted On:
    3/12/2009 6:33pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: TKD, Relson GJJ, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    But not all of the Gracies buy into the "skr33t vs sport" Jiu Jitsu paradigm that the Gracie Academy is pushing and I would wager that most of them don't approve of this video pimping program. So, if Gracie Academy controls the branding of the Gracie name, where does that leave all of the other sons and their black belts with regards to being lumped in with the Gracie McDojo?
    Mushi mo atsui hodo
    Mushiatsui

    Originally Posted by chuey
    ...Well **** if that isn't the most anti-Mr. Miyagi **** I have heard in ages.

    Two wrongs don't make a right, but
    Three rights make a left.
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