It's a Sad Day - Gracie University

**Matt Phillips** · Posted On: 3/11/2009 11:08pm

Originally Posted by SifuAbel

I predicted this years ago. And this probably isn't the first mcdojoism of GJJ.

"It could never happen because X etc" , they said.

......told you so........

:karated:

How this helps me; I haven't the foggiest. I was just right, it was inevitable. It happens to EVERY MA. It actually helps you more that its been reported here and you have to deal with it. I'm surprised it hasn't been buried by troll spam, like some embarrassing uncle at a party, and swept under the rug. Nice going bullshido, there is hope for some of you yet.

If you read Black Belt magazine in the 90's (c'mon, you're among friends) you would remember that Carlson, jr tried this exact same thing back then. He had his stupid 2 page ads all over the damn thing. Or did you predict that in the 80's.

**pugghead** · Posted On: 3/12/2009 12:19am

Originally Posted by Petter

Where did this come from? What standard?

Just in case, I'll note that this isn't Gracie Barra. Neither Ryron nor Pedro are Gracie Barra blackbelts. In fact, since Gracie Jiu-jitsu is trademarked by whatever-branch of Helio's family, and the Gracie Barra lineage comes from Carlos Gracie Sr. rather than Helio, it's technically "BJJ" rather than "GJJ".

Right now, that gives me some measure of relief.

you gotta be careful saying this.... Helio's family/son's
aren't unified just under one school you know.

Originally Posted by TEA

Who controls the Gracie name in terms of Gracie Jiu Jitsu? I can't imagine that all of Helio's sons agree with this.

my school is under direct lineage with Rolyer's Gracie Humaita in Brazil. None of this Gracie university stuff has anything to do with him, or his brother Rolker.
www.academiagracie.com.br/

I also assume it has nothing to with Rickson, Robin and Royce who all have their own schools as well.

The Gracie University is ONLY connected WITH the "The GJJ Acdemy" http://www.gracieacademy.com which is controlled by Rorion and his sons... (i think it's HQ is in California. You know The where al bundy and Dr 90210 train....and where you can by the juice bag!)

**migo** · Posted On: 3/12/2009 12:22am

Yeah, this is basically a Rorion thing, which was endorsed by Helio while he was alive.

What I'm curious about is how other guys, like Rickson, will react to people with GJJ belts.

**SifuAbel** · Posted On: 3/12/2009 8:21am

Originally Posted by War Wheel

If you read Black Belt magazine in the 90's (c'mon, you're among friends) you would remember that Carlson, jr tried this exact same thing back then. He had his stupid 2 page ads all over the damn thing. Or did you predict that in the 80's.

:pottytrai

Nobody gave a **** in the early 90's enough to remember, or even know about, that bit of useless trivia. BBmagazine was for assholes, i didn't read it. And it sure as heck didn't make a dent on this board in 2k.

**TEA** · Posted On: 3/12/2009 8:41am

Originally Posted by migo

What I'm curious about is how other guys, like Rickson, will react to people with GJJ belts.

That's why I asked the question regarding the Gracie name and who control's it. I not only wonder what Helio's other sons think of this and how they'll react (if they do at all), but also all of their black belts who don't want to see GJJ associated with McDojoism.

**slideyfoot** · Posted On: 3/12/2009 9:39am

Originally Posted by TEA

That's why I asked the question regarding the Gracie name and who control's it. I not only wonder what Helio's other sons think of this and how they'll react (if they do at all), but also all of their black belts who don't want to see GJJ associated with McDojoism.

As far as I'm aware, Rorion's old trademark on Gracie Jiu Jitsu was contested by Carley Gracie: while Carley didn't win the overall case, he did make some progress on the trademark issue. At least that's the impression I get according to this, but as that's from 2000 and I'm also no lawyer, I could be wrong:

Originally Posted by Rorion vs Carley legal proceedings

The district court ruled on the post-trial motions on March 13, 1998. The court denied Carley's motion for a new trial. The court also made minor amendments to its findings of fact and conclusions of law. As requested by Rorion, the district court entered a permanent injunction prohibiting Carley from using any logo similar to Rorion's Triangle Design logo. The district court also awarded Rorion $620,000 in attorneys' fees. Finally, the district court entered an amended judgment, in which it (1) entered judgment in favor of Rorion on his claim of infringement of the Triangle Design logo; (2) entered judgment in favor of Carley on Rorion's claim of infringement of the "Gracie Jiu-Jitsu" name; (3) declared that Rorion "do[es] not have a valid service mark for the name GRACIE JIUJITSU, " as requested by Carley's motion to amend the judgment; (4) awarded Rorion $108,000 on his Triangle Design logo counterclaim, the amount of Carley's profits as found by the jury; and (5) confirmed the grant of permanent injunctive relief to Rorion, as requested by Rorion's motion to amend the judgment.

Both sides filed notices of appeal. Carley noticed his intent to appeal the portion of the amended judgment relating to the Triangle Design logo and various pretrial rulings (including the summary judgmentruling on his cancellation claim). Rorion noticed his intent to appeal the portion of the amended judgment stating that he had no valid service mark in "Gracie Jiu-Jitsu."

On May 12, 1998, Carley filed a motion for an award of attorneys' fees, based on the amended judgment, for his successful defense against Rorion's claim of infringement of the "Gracie Jiu-Jitsu" name. Rorion opposed the motion. The district court denied Carley's motion for attorneys' fees; Carley filed a notice of appeal from that order as well.

All three appeals (Carley's two appeals and Rorion's cross-appeal) were consolidated by order of this court. Rorion's cross appeal was dismissed for failure to prosecute.

I'm not sure how important the Gracie Jiu Jitsu brand is in comparison to the term Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. BJJ has become the accepted term: for a crude comparison, "brazilian jiu jitsu" (with those quotes: results are different without) gets 1.2 million hits on Google, while "gracie jiu jitsu" receives 191,000 . So perhaps this continuing effort by Rorion to push the self defence angle is an attempt to finally make that distinction totally clear, as I presume GJJ has a much lower market share of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu now than it did, say, 10 or 15 years ago.

It would appear that as has been mentioned in this thread and numerous times in the past, GJJ will simply become the TMA self-defence version of BJJ. Rorion's comment in the free handbook you can download from the Gracie University site really drives that home:

Originally Posted by p8

At the Gracie Jiu-Jitsu Academy, our primary concern is to preserve the techniques as they were developed and practiced by the Grand Master so that we can effectively teach them to the greatest number of people. [...]

If you dilute your training with impure, unrealistic, sport applications of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu, you will hinder your ability to respond quickly and effectively with the right technique.

Very definition of a TMA: preservation rather than evolution.

**ShauneP82** · Posted On: 3/12/2009 12:53pm

Yeah, that makes since. Lets honor somebody by making a shitty video to make money off of. You losers are douche bags. Drop dead.

**Diesel_tke** · Posted On: 3/12/2009 3:59pm

Originally Posted by ShauneP82

Yeah, that makes since. Lets honor somebody by making a shitty video to make money off of. You losers are douche bags. Drop dead.

Umm...who are you talking to? Us or them?

So I understand where they are going with this. As I looked at the site last night, they have money making all over the place. You can buy mats from them, shirts, Gis, and you will need the instructional material. Either buy the combatives DVDs for 140 dollars, or buy each individual lesson for like 8 dollars. Then pay for your exam. Presto---blue belt.

They will make a **** load of money off it. I'm glad that we will now be able to destiguish between GJJ and BJJ. This will put a pretty bad mark on the GJJ credability.

But in reality, the only place a BJJ belt matters is in the eye of the beholder. If you go to a no gi tournament, it doesn't matter what your belt is. If you go to a gi tournament it will matter but then again everyone sandbags any way. So you may as well enter in as a white belt any way.

So what is the point of this whole belt system any way. Screw it all. Sambo has it right...belts are for keeping kurtka closed...otherwise just roll.

**MrBadGuy** · Posted On: 3/12/2009 5:06pm

You forgot the most important function of belts. Belts are also for bragging about on internet forums, silly!

**TEA** · Posted On: 3/12/2009 5:33pm

But not all of the Gracies buy into the "skr33t vs sport" Jiu Jitsu paradigm that the Gracie Academy is pushing and I would wager that most of them don't approve of this video pimping program. So, if Gracie Academy controls the branding of the Gracie name, where does that leave all of the other sons and their black belts with regards to being lumped in with the Gracie McDojo?