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  1. Sley is offline

    mr. Hobbes

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    Posted On:
    10/03/2009 7:04pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by willparadigm View Post
    Street gappling works in the street, tournament grappling works in tournaments, Keep the two separate and you're OK, confuse the two and your most important goal, self defense, goes out the window. The first throw I learned from Royce Gracie was a hip throw and ALL the combatives stuff is taught from a complete no-gi perspective. Once again, you're expressing an opinion about things you don't know, end of story..
    so your saying Carlson Gracie's BJJ is inferior to Royces, bullshit.

    The street is not always No-Gi, seriously try it have some one put on a hoodie, its basically a Gi.

    Guess what, Pants, you can grab fucking Jeans, You can choke some one with a T-shirt, its not this super tear able piece of crap.

    Most Street people in chicago at least are wearing AT LEAST a hoodie, and Pants, maybe even a coat.

    Have you ever even been hit in the face with a bare fist? Do you have a super motherfucking weak glass jaw?

    If they stand up, open your guard and sweep them, actually why not always sweep them?

    Impassable guard works on a tee shirt.

    I did an hour of No-Gi rolling and you know what, if it wasn't for rules about grabbing clothes you could collar choke their asses, hell, NAGA had to BAN Collar chokes in No-Gi because they work pretty damn well.
  2. willparadigm is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/03/2009 8:17pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    No, that's not what I'm saying. Now you've exposed yourself as a ridiculous troll with nothing but ridiculous strawman arguments and no consistency. For a definition of "strawman argument" do a search for "logical fallacies". For a definition of "troll" look in the mirror.

    No-gi is important, gi is also important for just the reasons you've expressed and they will both be taught in the Gracie University program at the blue belt level. How do I know this? Because I use the resources of the site regularly and email back and forth with Ryron and Rener all the time to ask questions which they answer. The reasons for keeping the gi out of the earliest training are, Oh, I don't know ... Not everybody has one? Not everybody understands how to adapt from using the gi to using streetclothes and although gi chokes are important they aren't the very highest percentage techniques for the street, which is all you'll find in the combatives program.

    Now, to answer your questions even though I don't understand the reasoning behind them. I've been hit in the face with bare hands, elbows, feet, sparring gloves, boxing gloves and once a very large, glass beer mug. I didn't like it any of the times it happened and thankfully, it hasn't happened since I started studying under the Gracies. I've been both knocked the **** out (it wasn't the beer mug) and been up at the count of ten with my nose on sideways and bleedin' like an S.O.B. (It was the boxing gloves and dopey me, a 7 inch reach, 60 pound disadvantage) I've also laughed about it and a host of other reactions. Funny you should mention sweeps from the guard against a standing opponent. They're taught in the Gracie combatives program. Educate me why don't you? WTF is "impassable guard"? Whatever it is, I guarantee you, impassable it's not.

    When it comes to The Gracie Combatives progran and why I not only buy into it but bought it, period: It's set up by two young men who have studied the art since birth from family that have studied the art since birth. They took a look at a very large compiled history of very real fights that their family and others have been in, and figured out statistically which techniques worked most often and which ones didn't. I realize the art of learning from the past mistakes of others may be beyond you but apparently it's something Ryron and Rener have a firm grasp of. They also have 80 years of history to draw from and nearly thirty years of experience teaching between them. That's right, that would mean they were learning to teach when they were kids. I attended the Gracie Academy in 1998-"99" and can confirm that this is precisely the case. I am in no way saying you don't know what you're doing, but compared to someone named Gracie ... I'll go with the confirmed experts, thanks.
  3. Sley is offline

    mr. Hobbes

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    Posted On:
    10/04/2009 1:08am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by willparadigm View Post
    No, that's not what I'm saying. Now you've exposed yourself as a ridiculous troll with nothing but ridiculous strawman arguments and no consistency. For a definition of "strawman argument" do a search for "logical fallacies". For a definition of "troll" look in the mirror.

    No-gi is important, gi is also important for just the reasons you've expressed and they will both be taught in the Gracie University program at the blue belt level. How do I know this? Because I use the resources of the site regularly and email back and forth with Ryron and Rener all the time to ask questions which they answer. The reasons for keeping the gi out of the earliest training are, Oh, I don't know ... Not everybody has one? Not everybody understands how to adapt from using the gi to using streetclothes and although gi chokes are important they aren't the very highest percentage techniques for the street, which is all you'll find in the combatives program.

    Now, to answer your questions even though I don't understand the reasoning behind them. I've been hit in the face with bare hands, elbows, feet, sparring gloves, boxing gloves and once a very large, glass beer mug. I didn't like it any of the times it happened and thankfully, it hasn't happened since I started studying under the Gracies. I've been both knocked the **** out (it wasn't the beer mug) and been up at the count of ten with my nose on sideways and bleedin' like an S.O.B. (It was the boxing gloves and dopey me, a 7 inch reach, 60 pound disadvantage) I've also laughed about it and a host of other reactions. Funny you should mention sweeps from the guard against a standing opponent. They're taught in the Gracie combatives program. Educate me why don't you? WTF is "impassable guard"? Whatever it is, I guarantee you, impassable it's not.

    When it comes to The Gracie Combatives progran and why I not only buy into it but bought it, period: It's set up by two young men who have studied the art since birth from family that have studied the art since birth. They took a look at a very large compiled history of very real fights that their family and others have been in, and figured out statistically which techniques worked most often and which ones didn't. I realize the art of learning from the past mistakes of others may be beyond you but apparently it's something Ryron and Rener have a firm grasp of. They also have 80 years of history to draw from and nearly thirty years of experience teaching between them. That's right, that would mean they were learning to teach when they were kids. I attended the Gracie Academy in 1998-"99" and can confirm that this is precisely the case. I am in no way saying you don't know what you're doing, but compared to someone named Gracie ... I'll go with the confirmed experts, thanks.
    and yea Impassible guard is passable, its just hard, you can actually turn it into an armbar.

    Learning from your own mistakes is a major part of learning BJJ, your given tons and tons of moves and you whittle it down to the moves that work best for you, you also get some extra moves that work when your main move fails (I.E. the star sweep)

    The street is less hard then one thinks, seriously try one of those shoulder rolls on it, it doesn't hurt.

    I'm not a troll, I have 674 posts I would have long been banned.

    Trolls don't argue against stupidity

    and finally, you can't learn over the internet, if its a physical activity, hell you can't learn much at all over the web, except how many people must have really fucked up fetishes

    did you know your precious Ryron got his 5th degree to early, yea mate 7 years too early

    finally to quote some guys of sherdog



    blanko
    Banned

    Join Date: May 2004
    Posts: 7,150


    the only "problem" i have is what rorion said:

    "alot of people teaching jiu jitsu these days and they have alot of standards on what a person is a black belt or not. So alot of people here, purple belts, brown belts they go somwhere else and immediately awarded black belt. Wich is all right by thier standards but our standards area bit different."

    IF Rorions academy was like Barra, Alliance, Huamita, Nova Unaio, or Brasa. If Rorion's academy was a house of champions with high standards like the schools above, i could understand and accept this comment. HOWEVER, for a Person who has NEVER produced any high lvl bjj prationer OTHER than his sons to say this... Let's just say i am not comfortable about that.
    Carlson Gracie Sr. Trained llan Goes, Murilo Bustamante, Mario Sperry, Wallid Ismail, Andre Pederneiras, Ricardo Liborio, Rodrigo Medeiros, Marcelo Alonso, and Vitor Belfort. He also trained Stephen Bonnar who was a finalist on UFC’s The Ultimate Fighter.

    Carlson Gracie Sr. was undefeated in Vale Tudo, what the **** has Ryron done?

    Joe Funaro
    Amateur Fighter



    Join Date: Jun 2006
    Location: Long Island,NY
    Posts: 402


    Anyone who takes BJJ and then says "well, we do it for combat, not as much a sport" is an insult to Helio and Jigoro Kano.

    Kano knew the limitations of self defense techniques. He was the one who realized that the jiujitsu of his day sucked balls because it was not alive. He made it alive by taking away everything that could not be done in a sport competition. He made guys who could fight. The reason for taking out "self defense" techniques out of the curriculum was to make better fighters FOR THE STREET.

    The Gracies new this because they got trained in Judo.

    The real problem now though is that GJJ isnt the top dog anymore and people realize how important adding wrestling and stand-up arts is, the GJJ uses the self defense crap as an excuse.
  4. willparadigm is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    10/04/2009 1:23am

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm not going to argue about who got what stripe when. I don't give a ****. "and finally, you can't learn over the internet". You know this because??? Certainty is the cessation of all learning, we'll just have to see what the process produces. I'm done arguing nothing but opinion. When the facts come in, I'm betting I turn out right, not certain mind you. But I'm betting on it and what Im betting might be literally my life. Have fun guessing like everybody else and have a nice life.
  5. DKJr is offline
    DKJr's Avatar

    Fasten your seat belts, and prepare for lift off

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    Posted On:
    10/04/2009 1:31am

    supporting member
     Style: Combat Cuddling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Until the day comes that the interwebs "training" produces someone decent, I'll keep training with actual coaches and fighters who are there to, you know train with me.
  6. Ben Grimm is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/04/2009 5:35am


     Style: Baji, Boxing, Sanda

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I am so pissed! Just last night, I found that my "BJJ" coach Mr Cai had done all of his training online via Gracie University. He hasn't even got his Blue Belt yet, but he graded me to Blue Belt. I'm glad I found out now. He probably wouldn't have told me if we didn't go drinking either. Frickin lightweight.....
  7. Sley is offline

    mr. Hobbes

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    Posted On:
    10/04/2009 5:32pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Grimm View Post
    I am so pissed! Just last night, I found that my "BJJ" coach Mr Cai had done all of his training online via Gracie University. He hasn't even got his Blue Belt yet, but he graded me to Blue Belt. I'm glad I found out now. He probably wouldn't have told me if we didn't go drinking either. Frickin lightweight.....
    ****, are your serous, wow, that sucks man, that really sucks, but LOL your a higher rank :)

    Your the first victim I've heard of.
  8. gonzomalan is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/04/2009 6:36pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintanon View Post
    Now, who the **** goes into a situation vs an untrained guy thinking "I'm gonna have to jump guard on this guy..." You jump guard when your opponent is likely to have better takedowns than you do. How many untrained people have better takedowns than me? None.
    Quote Originally Posted by gonzomalan View Post
    the objective of the Combatives section of the program is simple, and stated multiple times: to prepare people to be able to defend themselves against opponents who 1) are larger than them, and 2) who have no grappling knowledge.
    thus, if you can clinch and try to pull an o-goshi on someone 80 lbs heavier than you, you might fail. you might even get pushed to the floor, even though that's not a very technical takedown. slidey's review has an important note on the guard pulling:
    "It is also important to note that Rener and Ryron are not saying flop to your back, or jump up and wrap your legs around them (which is asking to be slammed to the ground)."

    Quote Originally Posted by Sley View Post
    and finally, you can't learn over the internet, if its a physical activity
    ....
    Carlson Gracie Sr. was undefeated in Vale Tudo, what the **** has Ryron done?
    1) it's not like the program is asking you to learn using a virtual character. you have to physically practice the moves. believe me, the detail in the lessons is unbelievable, and if you still have questions, there's a (free!) Q&A forum where they answer your questions, provided you ask clearly enough. (that's not exactly the characteristic of a hack program). also, when a video submission is graded, they makes notes on what you do right and wrong, so you get feedback no matter what.
    if you can't learn when someone is telling you how to do something, and answering your questions, it's probably because you lack personal responsibility. still, their philosophy is that there is no bad student, only bad teachers, so that's why they make themselves accessible.
    2) the gracies still hold challenge matches at the torrance academy, of which R&R have both taken part. also note:
    Quote Originally Posted by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlson_Gracie
    Carlson fought a total of eighteen vale tudo fights, with only one loss to Euclides Pereira in a fight that was held in Bahia.
    it goes on to say that he has 3 draws on his record, so if i gots my maths right, that's 14-1-3.
  9. gonzomalan is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/04/2009 6:39pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Grimm View Post
    I am so pissed! Just last night, I found that my "BJJ" coach Mr Cai had done all of his training online via Gracie University. He hasn't even got his Blue Belt yet, but he graded me to Blue Belt. I'm glad I found out now. He probably wouldn't have told me if we didn't go drinking either. Frickin lightweight.....
    if he passed the program, he's a technical blue belt. not a "real" blue, to be sure, but whatever. i'm a little suspicious of his standards. if he wasn't up front about it, his transparency about these things might be a little off.

    still, do you feel like you deserve a blue?
  10. symphox is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    10/04/2009 7:45pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: BJJ, Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    We're all freakin out about this crap but wait... has anyone even been awarded a blue belt yet through this program? If so... would that person walk into a real BJJ/GJJ academy and attempt to train there as a real blue belt?

    It is highly doubtful that any person (even one stupid enough to buy into this DVD business) would be so retarded as to try to pass as a REAL trained GJJ practitioner in a real dojo. I wouldn't worry at all guys...except for Ben Grimm who got HOSED... LOL@U

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