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  1. migo is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/26/2009 10:28am


     Style: Baboo Baby

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Whacker View Post
    A question that I'd like to pose to current BJJ students and practitioners:

    What is/are your take(s) on someone with verifiable and legitimate grappling skills but absolutely zero BJJ training taking this online course and rocketing up to Black in a very short amount of time, say a few months? Would you view such an individual as a "real" BJJ black belt, as opposed to someone who's sweated and bled for years in a traditional school?
    Moot question. First of all, you can't test for black online. Second of all, they only have up to blue right now. That might be worth asking once they actually have everything up to 4 stripe brown.
  2. slideyfoot is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/26/2009 11:11am

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     Artemis BJJ | Brazilian Jiu Jitsu in Bristol Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by diesel_tke View Post
    But honestly, this combatives program is not really that in depth. It is really basic. Most BJJ video series have a lot more information in them.
    I don't think that's entirely fair, as judging by the free samples (admittedly it could be that the rest of it is terrible, as I can't know without having seen it, but that seems unlikely), they have an enormous amount of information. I can't think of any other BJJ set that runs to 18 hours. There may well be sets out there with more actual techniques (e.g., Kukuk's Brazilian Jiu Jitsu A to Z had over 600, IIRC), but I for one would much prefer a really in depth discussion of a small number rather than quickly running over loads.

    The fundamentals never stop being useful, so I'd love to see a really good instructional on the absolute basics (like upa, scissor sweep, elbow escape, recovering guard from side control etc). Rener and Ryron apparently spend 35 minutes on the elbow escape, which sounds fantastic (unless things like the 'reflex development drill' and the like take up large chunks). Roy Dean's Blue Belt Requirements is very good and currently the best beginner DVD instructional out there (also pretty cheap, at $45), but it certainly isn't 18 hours long.

    Quality of instruction is not an issue I personally have with the Gracie University, its the online testing that raises questions.

    Because if you want to know a little secret, this whole combatives program has pretty much been taught already on their website. You can view all those videos for free on gracieacademy.com.
    Not with the same level of detail, organisation or coverage, if you're referring to the Gracie Insider videos
  3. Diesel_tke is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/26/2009 11:56am

    supporting member
     Style: stick,Taiji, mountainbike

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by slideyfoot View Post
    I don't think that's entirely fair, as judging by the free samples (admittedly it could be that the rest of it is terrible, as I can't know without having seen it, but that seems unlikely), they have an enormous amount of information. I can't think of any other BJJ set that runs to 18 hours. There may well be sets out there with more actual techniques (e.g., Kukuk's Brazilian Jiu Jitsu A to Z had over 600, IIRC), but I for one would much prefer a really in depth discussion of a small number rather than quickly running over loads.

    The fundamentals never stop being useful, so I'd love to see a really good instructional on the absolute basics (like upa, scissor sweep, elbow escape, recovering guard from side control etc). Rener and Ryron apparently spend 35 minutes on the elbow escape, which sounds fantastic (unless things like the 'reflex development drill' and the like take up large chunks). Roy Dean's Blue Belt Requirements is very good and currently the best beginner DVD instructional out there (also pretty cheap, at $45), but it certainly isn't 18 hours long.

    Quality of instruction is not an issue I personally have with the Gracie University, its the online testing that raises questions.

    Not with the same level of detail, organisation or coverage, if you're referring to the Gracie Insider videos

    Yes, that was the videos that I was referring to. I thought there was pretty good detaile on those videos. And actually I have said repeatedly in this thread that I agree that the quality of instruction is very good. I'm not sure why you said that. What I was saying is that this is purely basics. Anyone who has trained for about 6 months should already know this information.

    If you wanted better, more in depth information about basics of BJJ, there is a book called
    Jiu-Jitsu University (Paperback)

    by Saulo Ribeiro (Author), Kevin Howell (Author)

    Amazon.com: Jiu-Jitsu University: Saulo Ribeiro, Kevin Howell: Your Store

    It far surpasses the information in these DVDs, and would actually benifit anyone who needs more technical information about BJJ.
  4. slideyfoot is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/26/2009 12:08pm

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     Artemis BJJ | Brazilian Jiu Jitsu in Bristol Style: BJJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by diesel_tke View Post
    What I was saying is that this is purely basics. Anyone who has trained for about 6 months should already know this information.
    I've been training two and a half years, and I'd still like more information on purely basics. My point is that you can never know too much about a solid fundamental technique like the elbow escape, cross-choke from guard, armbar from mount etc, so an instructional which goes into great depth on those absolute basics is very welcome.

    BJ Penn puts it succinctly when he describes the cross-choke as "the first technique you learn but the last you master" (on one of his videos from BJPENN.com, IIRC).

    Merely my opinion of course, and as I've only seen the free samples on Gracie University, I've not got all that much to go by: it could be the DVD set is far less helpful than I'm assuming from the free videos. It could also just be I'm particularly crappy at BJJ so need more time on basics than most people. :icon_wink

    It far surpasses the information in these DVDs, and would actually benifit anyone who needs more technical information about BJJ.
    I'll be picking that up next week, so will be interesting to see how it measures up to the many glowing reviews on the net. Judging by his DVD set, I'd expect it to be high quality.
  5. PointyShinyBurn is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/26/2009 12:41pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by hardcorps1989 View Post
    As far as the belt ranking goes. you only get out of a martial art what you put into it. Earning a belt demonstrates a minimum level of competency with a set of skills. Obviously, there are a lot of attributes that determine your skill level and one blue belt will not be exactly like another blue belt, even from the same program.
    The skills that determine belts in BJJ have historically included performance against resisting opponents. A purple belt should, all things being equal, be able to hang in rolling with purple belts or have a good reason why not. Video testing on compliant drills breaks this model. Breaks it hard.
  6. E-Van is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/26/2009 12:47pm


     Style: bjj

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    My question is have any silly videos been found of people testing for there belts on you tube yet? And if so can you link them here?
    Website Administrator Tom Kagan just loves email, instant messages, private messages, text messages, tweets, status updates, and every kind of personal contact. You can reah him at his personal email account at [EDITED BY TOM KAGAN] or even on his cell phone number at [EDITED BY TOM KAGAN].
  7. slideyfoot is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/26/2009 1:10pm

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     Artemis BJJ | Brazilian Jiu Jitsu in Bristol Style: BJJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Van View Post
    My question is have any silly videos been found of people testing for there belts on you tube yet? And if so can you link them here?
    I wouldn't necessarily call them silly (though I'm not too fond of the marketing for the British one, but that's personal preference), but there are a bunch of examples on YouTube.

    Sacha Martin-Luther King's channel (UK Gracie Combatives instructor and GJJ purple belt).

    Chet Schemahorn's channel (US Gracie Combatives instructor and GJJ black belt)

    Here's what Schemahorn says about that particular test on NHB Gear:

    Quote Originally Posted by csmathog
    Before I comment too much on John's video maybe I should post my last blue belt test. I passed him, but he had several mistakes during the test, scored an 83 out of 100 (1 point deduction for each mistake, and 80 is passing). Please keep in mind I am not disagreeing with the fact that these new blue belts get their a$$ handed to them when they start sparring with the advanced students, but they have a good foundation to work from, and improve quickly.
  8. fatkidrecords is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/26/2009 1:19pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by diesel_tke View Post
    Yes, that was the videos that I was referring to. I thought there was pretty good detaile on those videos. And actually I have said repeatedly in this thread that I agree that the quality of instruction is very good. I'm not sure why you said that. What I was saying is that this is purely basics. Anyone who has trained for about 6 months should already know this information.

    If you wanted better, more in depth information about basics of BJJ, there is a book called
    Jiu-Jitsu University (Paperback)

    that's an amazing book, by the way. but there is something to be said for visual instruction.

    i have no beef with learning via internet/video and practicing at home or at your local karate studio... whatever. i think most of the people here feel the same way.

    the beef is earning a belt over the internet via video evaluation. it is an inferior way to be tested.

    one thing i really like about this is the level of detail, at least on the sample videos. it's like being at a seminar and having video notes to take home with you. very detailed. very thorough.
  9. Skillful is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/26/2009 1:23pm


     Style: Jiu Jitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PointyShinyBurn
    The skills that determine belts in BJJ have historically included performance against resisting opponents...Video testing on compliant drills breaks this model.
    That's the most succinct statement so far of what's at issue here.

    I've seen some instructionals featuring Ryron and Rener, and they definitely have an easy-to-understand teaching style to accompany their mastery of the Jiu Jitsu. They're entertaining and informative and everything else you could want in a video instructor. The point is that, as PSB mentioned, that's not how BJJ rank is traditionally earned.

    Further, I would argue that you can memorize and drill techniques all day long, but you don't really understand them until you try them in live training over and over, and become successful after repeated failures, first in the technique itself, and later in the timing and setup. This, to me, requires rolling often with multiple partners of various skill and size. Without that, I doubt this video series alone will result in many proficient grapplers.
  10. Diesel_tke is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/26/2009 5:14pm

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     Style: stick,Taiji, mountainbike

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by slideyfoot View Post
    I've been training two and a half years, and I'd still like more information on purely basics. My point is that you can never know too much about a solid fundamental technique like the elbow escape, cross-choke from guard, armbar from mount etc, so an instructional which goes into great depth on those absolute basics is very welcome.

    BJ Penn puts it succinctly when he describes the cross-choke as "the first technique you learn but the last you master" (on one of his videos from BJPENN.com, IIRC).

    Merely my opinion of course, and as I've only seen the free samples on Gracie University, I've not got all that much to go by: it could be the DVD set is far less helpful than I'm assuming from the free videos. It could also just be I'm particularly crappy at BJJ so need more time on basics than most people. :icon_wink

    I'll be picking that up next week, so will be interesting to see how it measures up to the many glowing reviews on the net. Judging by his DVD set, I'd expect it to be high quality.

    Yes, I agree, you can never know the basics to well. Many great BJJ players agree with you as well.

    When you read this book(and it is going to take a while) it will change your game I guarantee you. Just the survival section alone is worth the whole book. Then he goes in depth into the different guard games. It took me a while to get through his book, and I keep going back to reference.

    I actually learn better through books then videos because my mind gets sidetracked too easily when watching videos. I find myself looking at background stuff, watching feet, and looking at bald spots. That's my own personal issue though, completely irrelevant to this discussion.

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