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  1. 265lbsfist is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/21/2009 12:08pm


     Style: BJJ/MT

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BomberH View Post
    Name one IJF recognised judo organisation that gives away 1st Dan black without a face to face test.

    In fact virtually all IJF recognised judo promotions to judoka under the age of 30 have a contest element that requires candidates to actually take part in full on grading contests and tournaments.

    Your evidence is second hand from some "judo guys" and it suck just like Gracie McJitsu.
    Here in Norway there's face to face testing for all kyu degrees but mostly it's just a formal display of techs in order to get the belt. Almost nobody gets failed anymore.
    For the dan degrees I don't know. But getting a brown for just showing up is pretty bad IMO.
  2. BomberH is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/21/2009 1:58pm


     Style: Judo, BJJ & Aikido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by 265lbsfist View Post
    Here in Norway there's face to face testing for all kyu degrees but mostly it's just a formal display of techs in order to get the belt. Almost nobody gets failed anymore.
    For the dan degrees I don't know. But getting a brown for just showing up is pretty bad IMO.
    Why would someone turn up to a technical grading knowing that there were techniques on the syllabus that they didn't know?

    The reason technical gradings have high pass rates is that any candidate with half a brain and a reasonable coach will only pay their grading fee and travel when they know that they can perform the required techniques.

    However, I can't talk about the specific situation in Norway. I know its pretty tiny in the Judo world as has only about 400 dan grades.
    They would not therefore have sufficient numbers to hold say contest 5th dan gradings (i.e. at least 5 x 4th dans required).

    I know from a poster a Judo forum that contest wins are part of the normal
    1st dan grading system. As I said in my posts virtually all dan grades given to those under 30 include competition. In later years advanced technical streams become more common as the knees are usually f*cked by then.

    I am still not aware of any mail order or video tested dan grades in any IJF approved body.
  3. 3moose1 is offline
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    United States Marine.

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    Posted On:
    3/21/2009 2:05pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: MCMAP, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyFive View Post
    I believe it was always possible to get black belt in Judo without competing. It just took a lot, lot longer.

    About four times longer, if i remember correctly.

    PROOF that I'm not a completely useless poster:
    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...0&postcount=58


    Quote Originally Posted by Cy Q. Faunce
    3moose1 is correct. Sig THAT, you fucker.

    Quote Originally Posted by sochin101 View Post
    I went out with a delightful young woman who was on a regimen of pills that made her taste of burned onions.
    That is not conducive to passionate cunnilingus, my friend, let me assure you.
    Quote Originally Posted by HappyOldGuy View Post
    I agree with moosey
  4. BomberH is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/21/2009 2:19pm


     Style: Judo, BJJ & Aikido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Oh one more thing to add to the whole Gracie McJitsu theme, how did Helio get his 10th Dan? He invented the martial art. Self graded / student graded / or time in grade self graded? Again McJitsu!

    PS Before anyone says how did Jigoro Kano get his 12th Dan in Judo, the answer is he was awarded it after his death by the Kodokan. Whilst he was alive he didn't have a grade. How could he? He invented Judo and grading yourself is daft.
  5. Mtripp is offline
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    Choked out by Gene Lebell

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    Posted On:
    3/21/2009 2:38pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Whew... where to begin.

    First, it was Kano who gave us a grading system. It was to make Randori more effective. We have lost sight of it, but it should work like this:

    You are a legit black belt, about to randori with a white belt. If you fight him at your rank, neither one of you learn anything. Let's say your O soto gari is Black Belt level, but your Seoi is only Brown Belt Level and your Uchi Mata is white belt level.

    OK, when you fight the white belt, you do not use the things you mastered at the BB level, you use your white belt level stuff. This way your white belt stuff will eventually get stronger, and the new student gets a workout at his level. You can extend the concept up the ranks on your own.

    However, the only way this works, is if you know who you are facing. As such, Kano created the rank system to make this work.

    Now, earning rank in Judo can be done in several ways, and any of them is acceptable.

    1. Batsugun

    Ron Tripp entered the mid west ladder shiai as a white belt. He defeated everyone he fought that day. When Ron went up for his gold medal, he had a black belt on.

    2. Contest

    Formal contests are held in both shiai and kata from local to world events. Depending on the event, and where you place, you can be promoted. If you are crushing everyone in the green belt division, you are going to get promoted out of that division. The larger the event, the more likely this will happen sooner rather than later.

    3. Points

    There are many ways to earn points, and in truth, all promotions are based on them. Some things earn you more points than others. However, if we gave no points to Coaches, Refs, Boosters, team members, etc; where would Judo be? All of my points for the last 30 years have come from Coaching, teaching clinics, etc.

    Now, is there a flaw in the process? There was, Phil Porter comes to mind, but that was dealt with. I'd like to say that when my dojo was open, my Uncle was the head of Promotions for USJA in Michigan. We found it odd that so many people went elsewhere to test, rather that to be tested at our dojo.

    For those who pay attention, that is the reason one person has such problems with me on another site. He questions my rank to deflect any legitimate questions about his.

    Still, no one tests via video tape. Most major promotions are held at large Judo camps to avoid the problem all together. My 6th dan test was held at the Spirit of the Eagle Judo camp, it took many hours each day for most of the week, and I was glad I had my Doctor get me some good drugs to get through that week.

    The rank thing will always be with us just as fake rolex watches will. Still, at the end of the day, YOU know what is really on your wrist, or around your waist.
  6. HappyOldGuy is offline
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    Slipping coal into stockings with a little sumptin for mom.

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    Posted On:
    3/21/2009 4:06pm


     Style: Rehab Fu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Now I don't have any BJJ rank to debase, but I think the focus on the rank is missing the major problem. To me the thing that turns the lolz/cry up to 11 isn't the video grading, it's the idea of learning to grapple by drilling techniques without rolling.

    I'm pretty sure that even the guys who go for pure technical judo grades still do some randori.
  7. theotherserge is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/21/2009 4:36pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: sambo/crossfit

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If they^don't, it's not Judo. Same should go for BJJ ~erhm~ GJJ...
    Many things we do naturally become difficult only when we try to make them intellectual subjects. It is possible to know so much about a subject that you become totally ignorant.
    -Mentat Text Two (dicto)
  8. CrackFox is online now
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    You have to work the look.

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    Posted On:
    3/21/2009 4:36pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Looks like some of the assesment videos are popping up on YouPube
    YouTube - Duane Harper Bluebelt Assessment Video - Drill 5
  9. Diesel_tke is offline
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    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    3/21/2009 4:44pm

    supporting member
     Style: stick,Taiji, mountainbike

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Interesting. So that looks like it was filmed at a school? I can't wait to see the ones from po-dunk city Alabama!!!
  10. 265lbsfist is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/21/2009 4:47pm


     Style: BJJ/MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BomberH View Post
    Why would someone turn up to a technical grading knowing that there were techniques on the syllabus that they didn't know?

    The reason technical gradings have high pass rates is that any candidate with half a brain and a reasonable coach will only pay their grading fee and travel when they know that they can perform the required techniques.

    However, I can't talk about the specific situation in Norway. I know its pretty tiny in the Judo world as has only about 400 dan grades.
    They would not therefore have sufficient numbers to hold say contest 5th dan gradings (i.e. at least 5 x 4th dans required).

    I know from a poster a Judo forum that contest wins are part of the normal
    1st dan grading system. As I said in my posts virtually all dan grades given to those under 30 include competition. In later years advanced technical streams become more common as the knees are usually f*cked by then.

    I am still not aware of any mail order or video tested dan grades in any IJF approved body.
    Ok, sorry if I gave the impression that I see all of judo as McDojo. That was not my intention. I have great respect for the art and occasionally train in it myself to get the quality throwing training I need for BJJ comps. I just got annoyed by your blanket statement that BJJ/GJJ somehow finally was exposed as the McDojo it was. Some of BJJ, as probably some of judo, has always had McDojo qualities. However the legit guys in both sports know of this and treat these subgroups accordingly. I deplore the Gracie University scheme for its McDojoism but to label all of the hundreds of thousands of people getting their asses kicked in legit BJJ training every day to better themselves with the same mark is wholly unfair IMO.

    Judo has one great advantage over BJJ in that it has a legit core org keeping the sport and the martial art honest. BJJ has the IBJJF but its rules and regulations are not considered to be binding by many and there are several different associations competing for supremacy. The IBJJF is by far the most recognized and might at some point evolve into the Kodokan of BJJ but it is far from it at this point, unfortunately.

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