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  1. DKJr is offline
    DKJr's Avatar

    Fasten your seat belts, and prepare for lift off

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    Richmond, VA
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    Posted On:
    3/20/2009 11:53am

    supporting member
     Style: Combat Cuddling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    *cough* Money grubbing whores *cough* seriously though drop the ability to earn rank online and I'd love it.
  2. Diesel_tke is offline
    Diesel_tke's Avatar

    Light Heavyweight

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    Pensacola, FL
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    Posted On:
    3/20/2009 12:18pm

    supporting member
     Style: stick,Taiji, mountainbike

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The Machado's site is the way it should be. They have tons of videos on there. The cool thing though is that you can send in videos of yourself and they will let you know what you are doing wrong. Also JJ Machado will put videos of himself showing the technique you want to know about. And they have like a thousand videos on there.

    You can't get any certification or ranking through it.
  3. fatkidrecords is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/20/2009 3:08pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    that's certainly a well thought out answer by rener. he raises a good point about being able to evaluate the videos with rewind, freeze frame, etc... and at least he's willing to admit it is a less effective way to test.

    i'm satisfied.
  4. Diesel_tke is offline
    Diesel_tke's Avatar

    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    3/20/2009 3:25pm

    supporting member
     Style: stick,Taiji, mountainbike

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Less effective way to test but still doing it!
  5. Petter is offline

    12th level logic wielder

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    Mar 2007
    Location
    Vancouver, BC
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    Posted On:
    3/20/2009 3:37pm


     Style: BJJ, judo, rapier

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by fatkidrecords View Post
    that's certainly a well thought out answer by rener. he raises a good point about being able to evaluate the videos with rewind, freeze frame, etc... and at least he's willing to admit it is a less effective way to test.

    i'm satisfied.
    Iím not. Iíll freely admit that Iím fairly crap at BJJ, and welcome the input of others, but the reasons why I think that this method of testing is real crap are

    1. Seeing the techniques is good, but no substitute for feeling them. An instructor should roll with his students.
    2. The student who practices with a friend or two is missing out on the very critical part of rolling with many different people, which is a crucial learning experience and also closely tied to the fact thatÖ
    3. If evaluators only see unknowns rolling with unknowns, itís never entirely clear whether a person is good because the testing resistance is not guaranteed. My instructor can get a sense of where Iím at without rolling with me just by watching me roll with other peopleóbecause heís rolled with them; because he can measure me against the known baseline of the gymís overall skill level. If I rolled only with unknowns, I might look better than I am if they all just happen to share certain holes in their game.
    4. In extreme cases, as was mentioned above, thereís outright fraud: You canít always see the difference between the real thing and the well-choreographed thing. I donít think this would be terribly common, though.
  6. omoplatypus is offline
    omoplatypus's Avatar

    Merry Christmas! shitter's full...

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    Posted On:
    3/20/2009 3:40pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ/Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Skippy View Post
    This. A thousand times over.

    Learning online... I do it a bit. I pick up techniques from the Submissions101 vids and have pulled them off on the mat.

    Testing online... no. If something is choreographed, it is not live. The only way to know it isn't choreographed (other than to be sitting in a theater eating popcorn watching it on the screen) is to show up and roll in person.

    Hell, they could have a monthly or bi-monthly test at all the affiliates that invite everyone learning online to come in to test. Preregister, show up, roll, and be graded by someone at least a belt level above you.
    i watch subs 101 all the time, and i get decent advice from them. but, i understand that it is no substitute for training (as do most people who watch those vids). it's just a nice resource to have. that's what this program should be. a good resource to have for people unable to train at a gym.

    i agree that online grading and belting only leads to problems and makes the gracie family inch closer to the levels of ATA. with the proliferation of gjj schools, it shouldn't be hard to go to one to test for your belt.
    --------

    Quote Originally Posted by it is fake View Post
    yeah, normally i'd get a quote, but couldn't be bothered.
  7. Uncle Skippy is offline

    See my tongue. SEE IT!

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    Posted On:
    3/20/2009 3:52pm

    Business Class Supporting Member
      Style: BJJ, MT, TKD

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by fatkidrecords View Post
    that's certainly a well thought out answer by rener. he raises a good point about being able to evaluate the videos with rewind, freeze frame, etc... and at least he's willing to admit it is a less effective way to test.

    i'm satisfied.
    The only way to grade someone effectively is to roll with them or have them roll with others whose abilities you know (as mentioned above).

    Someone 'testing' for a belt using a video, ESPECIALLY in bjj, doesn't make sense. For their blue belt test, they have a person submit a video that shows 2 people moving through positions playing catch and release. If the person testing works for a week or two choreographing that tape, then it can appear they know how to do the techniques when really they are just acting out a script. Put them under pressure and watch it fall apart.

    There is no substitute for testing in person, under pressure.
  8. CrackFox is offline
    CrackFox's Avatar

    You have to work the look.

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    Jan 2008
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    Bat Country
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    Posted On:
    3/20/2009 4:05pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That was a bit of a TL;DR, but two quick points I'd like to make:

    1) There was never that much opposition to on-line degrees, as such, when they first came along. Distance learning was already well established for third level education, with organisations like the Open University providing recognised and well respected accreditation. There was no problem with their on-line courses. The problem was with the rash of degree-mills that popped up offering dodgy courses, using these new-fangled "web pages" to make themselves look official.

    2) The charge that we're just afraid of change is not well founded. Admittedly, any change to the way things are thought is going to be met with some resistance, but to just dismiss us as being stuck in our ways is not the way to fix this. For one thing, no-one's really complaining about the Machado program - in fact, it seems to be getting the thumbs up.

    Machado has even said that it's possible to get rank through the on-line program, but it requires you to meet him in person and prove your ability, and he makes no garuntees that having traveled to meet him, you're going to go home with a new belt.
  9. 265lbsfist is offline

    Registered Member

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    Mar 2008
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    Posted On:
    3/20/2009 5:40pm


     Style: BJJ/MT

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The Machado way seems ok. You can learn some stuff online but you've got to test it out live to get rank IMO.
    The instructionals they'll release might be very good but I hesitate in believing that hundreds of video gradings will be viewed by true instructors at the Gracie Academy every month. I think there will be a standard reply form sent out to the guys sending in their video tests. :(
    I could see how you could get some stripes on your white belt at best from showing competence in a video but IMO watering down the blue and even worse the higher belts like this is unforgivable but maybe inevitable. :(

    But isn't it kinda like an open secret in the BJJ community that the Gracie Academy in Torrance's reputation already is a bit tarnished despite the legit skills of the head instructors there?
  10. jkdeez is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    3/20/2009 5:49pm


     Style: fangfu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Bootleg Gracie dvds

    Yeah I bought some bootleg Helio Gracie instructional dvds form some Chinese guy in Chinatown who wasnt really selling them but had them in the back of his store. It shows Rickson practicing choke moves on coconut trees.

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