Posted On:3/18/2009 4:39pm
Style: stick,Taiji, mountainbike
Originally Posted by slideyfoot
That again sounds like the TMA mindset Rorion exhibited in the blue belt handbook (quote here). After all, one of the big problems with many martial arts is that they simply discount grappling, without realising that the best way to learn how to defend against it is to actually learn grappling yourself. So in that respect, there's a certain similarity between what Rener says above and the typical _ing _un anti-grappling ideology.
Yeah I like when they say: "The strategy of Gracie Jiu Jitsu is to avoid getting knocked out at all costs, control your opponent, and then submit them with a leverage based strategy."
As if to say that every striking art intends to get knocked out. That is a hell of a statement. But the fact is that it is all said and good until you get the **** knocked out of you.
But I like your spin. You are using their same argument about grappling and applying it to their new argument about striking.
I have a book that has Royce Gracie talking about how BJJ is an ever evolving art and he has started taking up kickboxing so that he will be better suited to fight MMA. He admits that BJJ has to evolve to take in striking otherwise it will get left behind. Then you have GJJ trying to hold everyone back. Good call!!
Artemis BJJ Co-Founder/Instructor
Posted On:3/18/2009 5:07pm
Artemis BJJ | Brazilian Jiu Jitsu in Bristol Style: BJJ
Originally Posted by diesel_tke
I have a book that has Royce Gracie talking about how BJJ is an ever evolving art and he has started taking up kickboxing so that he will be better suited to fight MMA. He admits that BJJ has to evolve to take in striking otherwise it will get left behind. Then you have GJJ trying to hold everyone back.
I should add that Rener does then go on to say in the video that striking is important for MMA: he simply doesn't feel its necessary for self-defence, if you already train GJJ. So its possible Royce was thinking along the same lines, though I don't think I've read the book you mentioned.
BJJ Beginner FAQ, Artemis BJJ, GrappleThon.org (BJJ for Charity)
Posted On:3/18/2009 5:38pm
Well, the book is "The Best of Mixed Martial Arts". It is a collection of articles by MMA Worldwide. So it is not exactly a really good reference on anything. But it does have some interesting articles from a lot of people and their views on MMA.
On page 56, there is an article by Bobby Pittman. The article was talking with Royce Gracie about his MMA career and experiences training today.
In the article he states,"My family's jiu-jitsu always imcorporated many differen styles of fighting. It wasn't pure jiu-jitsu but also had elements of striking and wrestling. So it only stands to reason that it would continue to evolve. Although the basics that you see today are similar to what I used to win the first UFC, the vale tudo part of the art has evolved since then with more emphasis on no-gi techniques, muay Thai and kickboxing methods, and foot and leg locks. In life, change is part of growth and it should be embraced and not avoided."
It is interesting how he is not crediting the BJJ for being the best self denfence art but more of an all inclusive type art.
Posted On:3/19/2009 1:42am
Style: Baboo Baby
Originally Posted by diesel_tke
What? The link you provided is the combatives blue belt manual. Is there a different one? They are saying that combatives is the blue belt program. Why would there be separate manuals?
The link wasn't a manual. The manual is available if you sign up at gracie U, and I assume is the same one in the combatives DVD set, just in PDF form.
Posted On:3/19/2009 4:57pm
Sad but maybe inevitable I guess. :(
I agree with the notions that sport BJJ has strayed too far into the world of pure sport where riding the rules and time limits have become the main focus for many. However I also see the continuous competing as something which keeps the martial art honest so to speak. And most BJJ-players who want to develop MMA or selfdefense skills will look to the striking and other grappling arts to supplement their training.
This is a far more superior approach to keeping the martial art real than anyone teaching how to disarm people with wristlocks online.
Posted On:3/20/2009 12:51am
Rener Gracie posted a statement regarding some concerns that were stated.
It's a Sad Day - Gracie University - No BS Martial Arts
Fasten your seat belts, and prepare for lift off
Posted On:3/20/2009 9:32am
Style: Combat Cuddling
Here is his response.
Gracie University is our attempt to empower as many people as possible with the jiu-jitsu techniques developed by Helio Gracie. The Grandmasterís vision was to give the gift of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu to the world. To achieve this vision my father, Rorion, started by teaching as many people as possible in our garage in Southern California. When he outgrew the garage, he moved to a large commercial location, and recently we moved again to accommodate the ever-increasing popularity of the art. Even with jiu-jitsu schools in every major city around the globe, the worldwide demand for the Grandmasterís art is not being met. Today, we believe the powers of the internet and media technology make this possible.
In the past, we presented video lessons, computer-based training, and online techniques in an effort to provide supplemental knowledge to people who already trained at a school of martial arts. All of these venues provided superior instruction in various segments of the curriculum but lacked a feedback mechanism through which we could monitor the studentís progress. In fact, this lack of a feedback mechanism Ė the ability to truly interact with a student Ė has been the major shortcoming of all media-based martial arts instruction to date. To address this critical requirement for feedback and evaluation, we developed GracieUniversity.com.
The launch of Gracie University has drawn criticism and skepticism from conservative jiu-jitsu practitioners. We anticipated this reaction as it is normal for humans to resist change Ė especially when that change takes them out of their comfort zone. Every major advance in the last twenty years, from calculators to online college courses, has met with resistance from those who only saw the limitations of these advances. Over time, each has become an accepted part of our lives, as we have come to recognize the benefits of the new way and embrace it.
The keys to successful online instruction are clear and simple lessons, high quality production and presentation, logical linkage between lessons, and a mechanism for evaluating student mastery of the techniques. When my brother and I produced the Gracie Combatives instructional video series, we sought to present the information so effectively that any student, regardless of their age or athletic ability, could master the techniques without ever attending classes at the Gracie Academy. Accordingly, we created comprehensive lessons that included essential details, most common mistakes, and frequently occurring variations of each technique in the course. Then, we showed how to combine the techniques through a series of dynamic reflex development drills. We found that the video lessons and the streaming video format provided four unexpected benefits: 1) it allowed us to present more detail than we could pack into a live class at the Gracie Academy, 2) it enabled us to present all the techniques in the most logical order, 3) it allowed students to access the lessons at any time, and 4) it made it possible for them to learn as fast or as slow as they desire without the pressure of keeping pace with a live class full of other students of various skill levels.
Beyond teaching all the techniques of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu, through Gracie University we also seek to provide our students with the tools for self-discovery and further exploration of the art. As Helio Gracie proved decades ago, when he modified the traditional Japanese jiu-jitsu techniques to accomodate his frail physique, itís not the quality of your instructor, the method of instruction, or the name of your school that determines the rate of progress Ė itís the studentís commitment to learning that ultimately determines the level of achievement. We donít just teach them what to learn, we teach them how to learn so that they can ultimately take responsibility for their progress.
A key component of the Gracie University learning system is the video evaluation process. It is the essential quality control mechanism that is missing from all other media-based approaches to jiu-jitsu instruction and what finally enabled us to export the complete curriculum with confidence. Upon completing each segment of the curriculum, a Gracie Academy instructor will evaluate a studentís digitally recorded test performance for technical accuracy, efficiency, and proper reflexes in the execution of the newly learned techniques. If they pass the test, we will promote them to the next level and grant them access to the next segment of the curriculum.
To be sure, a hands-on test is indeed the best way to evaluate a studentís ability, because it allows the instructor to feel the technique. But, we simply canít produce enough instructors to test everyone in this manner. We have found that digitally recorded videos provide a valid means of assessing ability. Our carefully designed belt qualification tests are lengthy and exacting. Students are required to demonstrate all the techniques individually and in combination with one another, and the tests become progressively more challenging as the students climb through the ranks. While we canít see every angle, the recorded performance is in some ways even more demanding than a live test because we can replay, freeze frame, and ďslow viewĒ every move Ė there is no argument or doubt about the quality of the performance. Moreover, we routinely have more than one instructor independently evaluate the performance to ensure that we maintain a high standard. Admittedly, the video evaluation process is slightly less reliable than an in-person evaluation here at the Gracie Academy. But, we believe that expanded access to the life-changing benefits associated with the practice of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu, enabled by this instructional format, outweighs the minimal qualitative differences in a live versus video evaluation.
I assure you that we have not taken the task of sharing Gracie Jiu-Jitsu with the world lightly. We have ruthlessly upheld the Grandmasterís high standard for jiu-jitsu instruction and technical excellence since the founding of the Academy. In fact, the major criticism of the Academy in the past was that we were too stingy with the instruction, promoted students too slowly, and only recognized our own students as qualified instructors. Ironically, we are now subject to criticism for the spreading our knowledge as widely as possible, promoting more students, and certifying more instructors. We would only do this if we were certain that it could be accomplished without compromising the art. No one is more committed to sustaining the Grandmasterís legacy than the Gracie Jiu-Jitsu Academy. We are equally committed to achieving his vision of bringing jiu-jitsu to the world, and we believe that Gracie University is an important step in that direction."
Last edited by DKJr; 3/20/2009 9:34am at .
Reason: Putting in the text
Posted On:3/20/2009 9:40am
Last edited by DCS; 3/20/2009 9:42am at .
Reason: David was faster.
Posted On:3/20/2009 9:48am
I myself disagree that " digitally recorded videos provide a valid means of assessing ability". I applaud everything else like showing all these moves etc etc. Why not just travel to a local gracie affiliate (hell any gym) and test your skills there? Then you know you can hang with blue/purple/brown belts. This invites cheating/miss-judged skill/Fraud/Bullshido. Why run the risk of GJJ/BJJ becoming like other martial arts?
See my tongue. SEE IT!
Posted On:3/20/2009 10:45am
Style: BJJ, MT, TKD
Originally Posted by David Koresh Jr.
Why not just travel to a local gracie affiliate (hell any gym) and test your skills there? Then you know you can hang with blue/purple/brown belts.
This. A thousand times over.
Learning online... I do it a bit. I pick up techniques from the Submissions101 vids and have pulled them off on the mat.
Testing online... no. If something is choreographed, it is not live. The only way to know it isn't choreographed (other than to be sitting in a theater eating popcorn watching it on the screen) is to show up and roll in person.
Hell, they could have a monthly or bi-monthly test at all the affiliates that invite everyone learning online to come in to test. Preregister, show up, roll, and be graded by someone at least a belt level above you.
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