It's a Sad Day - Gracie University

[slideyfoot]

What's the criterion for a good product?

A reliable product that delivers on its claims, preferably for a reasonable price, though I'm not sure you can argue that just because something is expensive it is no longer a good product (presuming it fulfills the first requirement).

It's next to useless against even a n00b in a real grappling system, but it's definitely stuff you want to know for rolling around in teh lava with untrained people.

I don't think you want to just know it: you want to be able to actually do it. That's my big problem with Gracie Combatives. There is no sparring before blue belt (and I assume this guy is only certified to teach the white belt program, given he's only a blue one stripe himself), so the knowledge is theoretical rather than practical, and therefore not particularly useful for its stated aim of efficacy in a physical confrontation.

Having said that, it is probably better than nothing at all, though it certainly is FAR less useful than what can be learned at any of the numerous other more established schools, run by vastly more qualified and experienced teachers. Still, I have heard Harding is only charging £30 a month, which depending on the number of classes wouldn't be that terrible a price.

[gonzomalan]

Still, I have heard Harding is only charging £30 a month, which depending on the number of classes wouldn't be that terrible a price.

I can't find anything on the page.
http://www.londongraciejiujitsu.com/

[gonzomalan]

Meh I think Slidey's point was to demonstrate an original complaint of the program, will people go there instead of a readily available Jiu Jitsu gym? This points to yes.

the underpinning question is why would they choose this kind of program over an established gym? is there a significant difference in emphasis between "street vs. sport"? Re-reading posts #1018, 1019, and 1020 in this thread, my answer is a conditional yes, depending on what each individual school claims to teach, what they actually teach, and how well they teach it. The GJJ emphasis on claims of teaching the the original focus, self defense, is warranted, given the differences in what a person expects in a street fight versus what they expect in a tournament. In one, you expect to play by the rules, and the other, you have to expect the unexpected.
Training for "street" doesn't have to mean not resisting. I've been training GU with my brother, a former US Marine, and I'll be damned if he doesn't resist. Even training an upa, I've come away with a sore jaw and headaches from punches.

[slideyfoot]

I can't find anything on the page.
http://www.londongraciejiujitsu.com/

I got that figure from somebody posting elsewhere on the net, not the official site, so it's entirely possible the actual cost may be different.

I am keen to check the club out myself, as I'm very curious to see what it's like. It's a shame I can't make their free opening seminar, as it's on a weekday and I'm therefore at work.

[JohnKenner]

What's the criterion for a good product? It's next to useless against even a n00b in a real grappling system, but it's definitely stuff you want to know for rolling around in teh lava with untrained people.

Well, unless I'm mistaken, this is just a repackaged version of what they taught the Rangers, right? So, I think your analysis is spot on. Competition, no. Self Defense, maybe - if trained appropriately. But it sounds like there is no sparring... so that would be "Self Defense, no" as well.

The instructor certification process seems a little insane to me. If you have real BBs around why train with these guys?

[slideyfoot]

Although it remains to be seen if the results are good, I think it is also worth mentioning again just how clever the Gracie Academy's marketing is, as demonstrated by this example. They've come up with a brilliant way to expand their product globally with minimum investment on their part. The local guy has to do the majority of the work: they need to learn the course, get good enough to teach, develop a student base, find a building, do the marketing, run the actual school, take the risk, etc.

The end result is potentially a huge network of Gracie Academy affiliates, without the Gracie Academy having to do anything except provide access to Gracie University, examine a few video tests and allow the new affiliate instructor to use their marketing material.

[Eddie Hardon]

Crikey! If I cycle from my house straight down the road and bear right and then turn left and freewheel down St John's Avenue (hope my bloody brakes work!) I'd be there.

Anyway, thanks for posting.

[kidokan59]

SO...they can get a black belt via video tutoring. SO what>? they can now brag that they are black belt from Gracie online? Who cares. The western ranking system has less and less meaning...impress me with your training and character not the belt.

This is the most logical response I have read concerning this issue. I just now started reading about this, I have joined the GJJ University for several reasons. I live in rural KY and there are no legit GJJ or BJJ schools in the area, although a school about 65 miles away recently claimed to have become part of the Gracie network, but not the GJJ University. I am probably considered a dinosaur, I started Judo in 1972 and eventually switched to Hapkido in 1980 when I was stationed in Asia. But I had studied Shorin Ryu and Matsubayashi Ryu, and they are good styles, it wasn't what I wanted. Aikido had too many falling drills and my knees couldn't handle the punishment of duckwalking, etc. So Hapkido was something I had been looking for since the Billy Jack movies. Now 40 plus years later and much a much higher BB rank, I began to look for something that could help my students in the event they got into a fight with an MMA or similar type of brawler. I have not had much training in ground fighting other than years of Judo training, and I stayed the course until I reached 4th Dan from the Kodokan. So by accident I happen to be surfing the web and ran across the GJJ University website and after much research and conference with other martial artists, I decided I would try it. I like it very much and I have discovered the Gracie Survival Tactics that they offer to cops and the military to be quite effective. I am a retired Navy veteran and retired beat cop (medically retired), and I recall most of the altercations I got into could have been a lot worse had I not had previous training in the martial arts. The academy crap they teach is useless, they teach PPCT at the basic academy in KY and only a few techniques are useful, in my opinion. I just subscribe to the advice Bruce Lee talked about, use what works discard the rest. Some don't agree with that, and I am on the fence about it. But I am going to continue with the GJJ Blue Belt certification and see how I do, I would like to get a high score on the test but I would be happy just to pass it. If I fail it I would be highly embarrassed. The only part that I will have a problem with is the one on one sparring, and using only the GJJ techniques. It will be difficult not to throw in a punch or kick here and there, but I will try. I might post on here after I get my score back and pass the test. If the GJJ is the only thing a person can do, more power to them. I would recommend someone also practice or buy a few videos on Arnis/Kali, because stick fighting makes use of all of the upper arm and torso muscles as well as perfecting foot movement. Just my humble opinion and Master Po said it was ok to voice my concerns.

[Resonance10]

This is the most logical response I have read concerning this issue. I just now started reading about this, I have joined the GJJ University for several reasons. I live in rural KY and there are no legit GJJ or BJJ schools in the area, although a school about 65 miles away recently claimed to have become part of the Gracie network, but not the GJJ University. I am probably considered a dinosaur, I started Judo in 1972 and eventually switched to Hapkido in 1980 when I was stationed in Asia. But I had studied Shorin Ryu and Matsubayashi Ryu, and they are good styles, it wasn't what I wanted. Aikido had too many falling drills and my knees couldn't handle the punishment of duckwalking, etc. So Hapkido was something I had been looking for since the Billy Jack movies. Now 40 plus years later and much a much higher BB rank, I began to look for something that could help my students in the event they got into a fight with an MMA or similar type of brawler. I have not had much training in ground fighting other than years of Judo training, and I stayed the course until I reached 4th Dan from the Kodokan. So by accident I happen to be surfing the web and ran across the GJJ University website and after much research and conference with other martial artists, I decided I would try it. I like it very much and I have discovered the Gracie Survival Tactics that they offer to cops and the military to be quite effective. I am a retired Navy veteran and retired beat cop (medically retired), and I recall most of the altercations I got into could have been a lot worse had I not had previous training in the martial arts. The academy crap they teach is useless, they teach PPCT at the basic academy in KY and only a few techniques are useful, in my opinion. I just subscribe to the advice Bruce Lee talked about, use what works discard the rest. Some don't agree with that, and I am on the fence about it. But I am going to continue with the GJJ Blue Belt certification and see how I do, I would like to get a high score on the test but I would be happy just to pass it. If I fail it I would be highly embarrassed. The only part that I will have a problem with is the one on one sparring, and using only the GJJ techniques. It will be difficult not to throw in a punch or kick here and there, but I will try. I might post on here after I get my score back and pass the test. If the GJJ is the only thing a person can do, more power to them. I would recommend someone also practice or buy a few videos on Arnis/Kali, because stick fighting makes use of all of the upper arm and torso muscles as well as perfecting foot movement. Just my humble opinion and Master Po said it was ok to voice my concerns.

Woah wall of @@@kin text. Hit 'enter' every now and then would you.

Also could you clarify what was logical about that quote, I was so overwhelmed by the awesomeness of your training history and the philosophy of your practice I missed your point.

To the thread: I'm a total Noob at BJJ but when I have some more training under my belt I will go and see what the GJJ Academy in London is like. Won't leave it to long so as to have less bias, try and give a beginners perspective and hopefully you guys can give some feedback on that.

Next month I will be attending here: http://www.gblondonbridge.com/ twice weekly all being well.
I'll give it a couple of months and then check the other place out.

[Resonance10]

This is the most logical response I have read concerning this issue. I just now started reading about this, I have joined the GJJ University for several reasons. I live in rural KY and there are no legit GJJ or BJJ schools in the area, although a school about 65 miles away recently claimed to have become part of the Gracie network, but not the GJJ University. I am probably considered a dinosaur, I started Judo in 1972 and eventually switched to Hapkido in 1980 when I was stationed in Asia. But I had studied Shorin Ryu and Matsubayashi Ryu, and they are good styles, it wasn't what I wanted. Aikido had too many falling drills and my knees couldn't handle the punishment of duckwalking, etc. So Hapkido was something I had been looking for since the Billy Jack movies. Now 40 plus years later and much a much higher BB rank, I began to look for something that could help my students in the event they got into a fight with an MMA or similar type of brawler. I have not had much training in ground fighting other than years of Judo training, and I stayed the course until I reached 4th Dan from the Kodokan. So by accident I happen to be surfing the web and ran across the GJJ University website and after much research and conference with other martial artists, I decided I would try it. I like it very much and I have discovered the Gracie Survival Tactics that they offer to cops and the military to be quite effective. I am a retired Navy veteran and retired beat cop (medically retired), and I recall most of the altercations I got into could have been a lot worse had I not had previous training in the martial arts. The academy crap they teach is useless, they teach PPCT at the basic academy in KY and only a few techniques are useful, in my opinion. I just subscribe to the advice Bruce Lee talked about, use what works discard the rest. Some don't agree with that, and I am on the fence about it. But I am going to continue with the GJJ Blue Belt certification and see how I do, I would like to get a high score on the test but I would be happy just to pass it. If I fail it I would be highly embarrassed. The only part that I will have a problem with is the one on one sparring, and using only the GJJ techniques. It will be difficult not to throw in a punch or kick here and there, but I will try. I might post on here after I get my score back and pass the test. If the GJJ is the only thing a person can do, more power to them. I would recommend someone also practice or buy a few videos on Arnis/Kali, because stick fighting makes use of all of the upper arm and torso muscles as well as perfecting foot movement. Just my humble opinion and Master Po said it was ok to voice my concerns.

Woah wall of @@@kin text. Hit 'enter' every now and then would you.

Also could you clarify what was logical about that quote, I was so overwhelmed by the awesomeness of your training history and the philosophy of your practice I missed your point.

To the thread: I'm a total Noob at BJJ but when I have some more training under my belt I will go and see what the GJJ Academy in London is like. Won't leave it to long so as to have less bias, try and give a beginners perspective and hopefully you guys can give some feedback on that.

Next month I will be attending here: http://www.gblondonbridge.com/ twice weekly all being well.
I'll give it a couple of months and then check the other place out.