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  1. TEA is offline
    TEA's Avatar

    Now iz BBQ Timez?

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    Posted On:
    3/11/2009 11:08am

    Join us... or die
     Style: TKD, Relson GJJ, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    It's a Sad Day - Gracie University

    I can't believe that Graice Jiu Jitsu is adopting McDojoism.

    https://www.gracieuniversity.com/LC/...3QJ4TGT7X&n=28


    To honor the legacy of Grand Master Helio Gracie, we will make the complete Gracie Jiu-Jitsu curriculum available to students all over the world through the most powerful and comprehensive online learning system available.



    For the first time ever, all the techniques required for promotion to black belt will be available online in the exact order and lesson format that you would experience in private lessons at the Gracie Academy. Through a revolutionary Video Evaluation Process, we will be able to monitor your progress, evaluate your skills, and award you with official belt promotions on your journey to Gracie Jiu-Jitsu mastery.


    We will be with you every step of the way.


    Ryron and Rener Gracie
    Head Instructors - Gracie Academy
    "To honor the legacy of Helio Graci"? Looks more like they're trying to cash in on his legacy.

    "We will be with you every step of the way"? Via video? Common, how are they going to provide quality instruction via video? While video can be a useful tool for instruction, it is no substitute for physical interaction between instructors and students.
    Last edited by TEA; 3/11/2009 11:35am at .
    Mushi mo atsui hodo
    Mushiatsui

    Originally Posted by chuey
    ...Well **** if that isn't the most anti-Mr. Miyagi **** I have heard in ages.

    Two wrongs don't make a right, but
    Three rights make a left.
  2. partyboy is offline
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    ^ the answer to life

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    Posted On:
    3/11/2009 11:30am


     Style: bjj/(not enough)MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    so what if it's only you doing the dvd?
    In summation your argument denotes a lack of intellectual honesty on your part. It is my contention that this matter would best be solved with fisticuffs. I believe I will be victorious in this regard.
  3. slideyfoot is offline
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    Artemis BJJ Co-Founder/Instructor

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    Posted On:
    3/11/2009 11:34am

    Business Class Supporting Membersupporting member
     Artemis BJJ | Brazilian Jiu Jitsu in Bristol Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I was wondering when somebody would start a thread on here: I first saw it on Sherdog, but its across all the major BJJ forums now (e.g., EFN and NHBGear).

    Via video? Common, how are they going to provide quality instruction via video?
    What interests me about this, aside from the numerous previous issues which were raised in the debate over Gracie Combatives, is that this puts the Gracie Academy in the same position as Carlson Gracie Jr in 1997, which led to heavy criticism from Helio.

    Carlson Gracie Jr had an instructional series available at the time which offered certification in self-defence. It effectively sounds comparable to this new Gracie University course, using 1997 technology (i.e., tapes rather than a website). The advert included this statement:

    Quote Originally Posted by Carlson Gracie Jr
    Now, for a limited time only, Carlson Gracie, Jr., is accepting key students and instructors to learn and teach the fundamentals of Brazilian Jiu-jitsu. This new course, endorsed by the International Brazilian Jiu-jitsu Federation, teaches the Gracie Family's most life saving self-defense techniques and is designed for instructors as well as students of all levels. This course teaches dozens of important Gracie standup and ground fighting techniques and fully certifies you to teach these techniques for the Gracie Family. You can even have Carlson Gracie, Jr. personally test you or your students for further certification
    Helio singled that out for attack in his GJJ Advanced interview:

    Quote Originally Posted by Helio
    Didn't you see Carlson's son is selling a certificate in the United States? To anyone who buys four or five of his tapes, he'll give a certificate as an instructor. What else do you want? Is there a bigger con artist than this? [...]

    This kind of dishonesty I do not approve of. I already elected Rorion my representative in all areas, not only because he's my oldest son, but because he is the one who is more dedicated to jiu jitsu for what jiu jitsu is and the way I like it. [...]

    Lets not confuse the student with those presumptuous ones who want to become teachers, because my own sons, who were born with me and since three years old have been doing jiu jitsu, only got their certificates after practicing their teaching skill for ten years.

    Now an individual comes by my academy and spends five or six months or a year, and then leaves calling himself a jiu jitsu teacher. There's no way. Because for me, the instructor skill is not the learning of the movements, its in the philosophy behind the movements. In Brazil, unfortunately, it is very difficult to find someone with the morals I expect to become an instructor at my academy. That's the problem.
    I'm guessing that the Gracie Academy's defence would be the same as their defence of Gracie Combatives: it isn't the same as 'sport jiu jitsu', as instead its a ranking in self-defence. I.e., this section of the website:

    Quote Originally Posted by Gracie University
    The Gracie Jiu-Jitsu Academy belt system is distinct from that of sport-oriented schools. Although the belt colors are the same, the belt qualification requirements are very different. Sport-oriented schools promote students based on their mastery of techniques that will lead to victory in a tournament setting. In most cases, sport belt holders are very comfortable in sport jiu-jitsu matches and controlled sparring sessions. However, when confronted by a larger and more athletic opponent who doesn’t play by the rules, they are often shaken by the unpredictable, violent attack and find themselves unable to respond.

    The Gracie Academy promotes students exclusively on their mastery of the techniques that will ensure their victory in a street fight. The Academy rigorously tests each student’s skills and reflexes at each stage of their training. The Gracie Academy Blue Belt Qualification Test, for example, requires students to demonstrate a high level of accuracy, efficiency, and reflexes in the execution of the most important street self-defense techniques. Because we feel that “street readiness” is our first and foremost objective, most of the techniques that we teach at this level are “street only”. As a result, a Gracie Academy “street” blue belt will win on the street but may not fare well in a sport jiu-jitsu match. On the other hand, a sport jiu-jitsu blue belt will perform well on the mat, but may have difficulty dealing with unpredictable and chaotic circumstances of a real fight.
    The fact that it goes all the way up to black belt makes it rather more controversial than the already contentious 'blue belt' from Combatives.



    It does look very professional, and to step away from the more serious McDojo problems which will no doubt be explored in detail in this thread, I like the way in which there is a training partner database, so you can look for people to train with in your area. As I'm always interested in drilling outside of class, that's handy, but not much use for somebody who is a complete beginner. The Gracie Garage idea is also interesting, but again, not too useful unless there is somebody a great deal more experienced present (like the current example, which has a brown belt leading it):

    Quote Originally Posted by Gracie University
    While the original Gracie Garage was an actual garage in which members of the Gracie family taught self-defense, today the term “Gracie Garage” is used to describe any at-home training facility that meets the following criteria:
    1. Dedicated Leader: The leader/owner of the facility must be dedicated to the mastery of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu.
    2. Instructional Source: The leader must have access to the official Gracie Jiu-Jitsu curriculum through Gracie University, Gracie Instructional DVDs, or a Certified Gracie Jiu-Jitsu Training Center.
    3. Training Area: The home must have at least one room, or space, that is dedicated to the practice of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu, and the room must be equipped with at least 100 square feet of grappling mats.
  4. TEA is offline
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    Now iz BBQ Timez?

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    Posted On:
    3/11/2009 11:41am

    Join us... or die
     Style: TKD, Relson GJJ, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Do you have a link to the Helio interview?
    Mushi mo atsui hodo
    Mushiatsui

    Originally Posted by chuey
    ...Well **** if that isn't the most anti-Mr. Miyagi **** I have heard in ages.

    Two wrongs don't make a right, but
    Three rights make a left.
  5. WhiteShark is offline
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    1% Shark is better than you.

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    Posted On:
    3/11/2009 11:44am

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well now we know BJJ > GJJ. At least they cleared that up.
  6. slideyfoot is offline
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    Artemis BJJ Co-Founder/Instructor

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    Posted On:
    3/11/2009 11:49am

    Business Class Supporting Membersupporting member
     Artemis BJJ | Brazilian Jiu Jitsu in Bristol Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TEA View Post
    Do you have a link to the Helio interview?
    Its from a 1998 video: I'm not sure if anyone has transcribed the whole thing, or if its sitting on YouTube/Megaupload/Google Videos somewhere, but I have some snippets written up in my review of Gracie Jiu Jitsu Advanced.
  7. Matt Phillips is offline
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    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

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    Posted On:
    3/11/2009 11:52am

    supporting member
     Style: Submission Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by slideyfoot View Post
    I was wondering when somebody would start a thread on here: I first saw it on Sherdog, but its across all the major BJJ forums now (e.g., EFN and NHBGear).

    What interests me about this, aside from the numerous previous issues which were raised in the debate over Gracie Combatives, is that this puts the Gracie Academy in the same position as Carlson Gracie Jr in 1997, which led to heavy criticism from Helio.
    .
    .
    .
    Beat me to it.
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
  8. lionknight is online now
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    3/11/2009 12:05pm


     Style: Much striking, SAMBO, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteShark View Post
    Well now we know BJJ > GJJ. At least they cleared that up.
    QFT.

    GJJ just ain't what it used to be.
  9. MrBadGuy is offline
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    King of the Impossible

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    Posted On:
    3/11/2009 12:24pm

    supporting member
     Style: Grapplomancer

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There's a school of GJJ just down the road from me. I mistakenly assumed it would be the same as other BJJ schools.

    The instructor then proceeded to lecture me at length as to how worthless sport jiu jitsu was, and that I would be rebuilding myself from the ground up, and that my sport jiu jitsu rank was worthless, and it would take many tests to see if I had mastered the self defense moves to advance, and also there's no sparring.

    I wash my hands of you, GJJ.

    Although having a black belt would be pretty sweet.
  10. SuperGuido is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    3/11/2009 12:31pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Is this a standard held by all Gracie Barra schools? There's a Gracie Barra nearby that I might check out and ask their opinion on this new development. Southern California is overflowing when it comes to quality BJJ instructors...so it wouldn't surprise me if the Gracie Barra near hear considered this a load of bullshit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Exodus
    Helio was submitted by Kimura
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