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  1. #1

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Should I "out" a McDojo and can I be sued for defamation in doing so?

    As you all might know, I was once a part of a martial arts school that I'm fairly sure was running a scam, a McDojo. It is still in operation today and I am friends with the President of the organization on Facebook.

    Honestly, I want to out him. He is a top-tier sleazeball who makes false claims about his art, promises things to his students and then doesn't deliver, and functions on the sole objective of moving money from his customers' pockets to his.

    The concern that I have is legal backlash. Power-trippers like him are crazy and reckless and I don't want to get entangled with the law. However, I just feel bad sitting on all of this information that could save people a lot of time and money. I don't want them to waste their lives away making some douche bag rich(er). I just don't want to get into trouble doing it. So, I have two questions:

    1. Should I out my old martial arts school?

    2. If so, can I be sued for defamation or anything else?

  2. #2
    Cake of Doom's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Just make sure you good evidence for everything you're claiming is wrong.
    Train hard, fight easy.

  3. #3
    Bullshido's Greatest Ninja staff
    plasma's Avatar
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    Kuso shite shinezo
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You can be sued for anything. One person that was investigated sued some one for calling them fat.

    Whether, they have a case involves them providing what you said was false, you knew it was false and as a result it cost them business.

  4. #4

    Join Date
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So What martial art is it? Are his creds false? So apart from taking money for apparent bullshit what else has been going on? You dont have to label the place or person in question but just a but of background info is good.

  5. #5
    submessenger's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by red_cloak View Post
    As you all might know, I was once a part of a martial arts school that I'm fairly sure was running a scam, a McDojo. It is still in operation today and I am friends with the President of the organization on Facebook.

    Honestly, I want to out him. He is a top-tier sleazeball who makes false claims about his art, promises things to his students and then doesn't deliver, and functions on the sole objective of moving money from his customers' pockets to his.

    The concern that I have is legal backlash. Power-trippers like him are crazy and reckless and I don't want to get entangled with the law. However, I just feel bad sitting on all of this information that could save people a lot of time and money. I don't want them to waste their lives away making some douche bag rich(er). I just don't want to get into trouble doing it. So, I have two questions:

    1. Should I out my old martial arts school?

    2. If so, can I be sued for defamation or anything else?
    If you are serious about outing him, you need more than just hearsay and your own butthurt. You will need documented evidence. And, it wouldn't hurt to seek legal counsel before you make any public statements.

    Have you spoken candidly with the "President of the organization," about making any moves to expose this alleged charlatan?

  6. #6
    goodlun's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I am not a lawyer and getting any sort of legal advise online seems to be a bit iffy to me, you should take my advice and any others with a grain of salt.
    So there are a number of things to consider.
    Is what he saying actually fraudulent based on the legal definition not the Websters.
    Making Money is not a crime.
    Can you actually prove that what he teaches is ineffective, not to us but to a Jury or a Judge, to laymen, to people that think movies are real.

    Now on the other hand:

    He has to prove damages, and that what you said or did caused them.
    Suing people can be very expensive, so generally its not actually worth doing.
    If he doesn't win he opens himself up to be counter sued for your legal cost.
    Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
    –George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence

  7. #7
    submessenger's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    Making Money is not a crime.
    Good point. McDojo does not mean fraud or scam. There are some high-quality McDojos. I would generally put Gracie Barra schools in that category. Yes, I'm aware that you recently started at a GB school. ATT and BTT have satellites, and 10th Planet has moons - all of which could be technically considered McDojos.

    Perhaps if you (red_cloak) elaborated a bit on your beef with your former chun sifu, we could guide you in your quest (in a strictly non-legally-binding sort of way, of course).

  8. #8
    goodlun's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Also let me break something down for you:
    I have trained with a Roy Harris BJJ Black Belt, that did well enough in competition to warrant his black belt and had a very good technical understanding of BJJ.
    He also competed internationally in Pankration and did very well in it.
    He also taught FMA, competed and performed well in that as well.
    Not only does he do alright for himself his students are competive in BJJ / FMA / and amateur MMA

    So all around you would think hey this guy gets it.

    On top of it this guy is one of the fairest guys I have ever dealt with when it came to the business side of things.
    Really reasonable rates, That he is up front about his rates, and if the money is an issue he will lower his rates.
    So he is far from any of it for the money.
    To the point he still drives uber to make ends meet.

    BUT

    He also teaches JDK

    and well I hear his JDK students spouting the same nonsense that a lot of the WC guys spout.

    So the guy you are talking about might be full of it, but odds are, HE doesn't fucking know any better.

    Lets be clear about one thing.
    YOUR white belt ass, isn't going to be the person to educate him either.
    Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
    –George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence

  9. #9

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Doesn't this place have a lawyer for advising investigators? Sam Browning right?

  10. #10
    submessenger's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lindz View Post
    Doesn't this place have a lawyer for advising investigators? Sam Browning right?
    Sam Browning and jitschix are both lawyers. Should this turn into an actual investigation, I imagine they'll be peeking at it. They aren't here to provide free legal advice for any schlub with a beef with his former instructor, however. That would be like you going to a Ruth's Chris Steakhouse, buying dinner, and then expecting their corporate law team to help you with conducting a smear campaign against McDonald's.

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