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  1. 1point2 is online now
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    Posted On:
    3/07/2009 4:10pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 剛 and 柔

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think the difference is that newbies get exponential grip-specific improvement in their first month, which they generally don't get for any other muscle group. Also, the hand is a much smaller set of tendons and muscles, and thus more prone to overtraining.

    Frankly, I would suggest to someone starting judo (or whatever, really) that they don't add any weight training for the first couple month or two. Learn judo, continue any existing program, and start tailoring your workout after month 1, 2 or 3 is complete.
  2. Judobum is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/07/2009 10:13pm


     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtripp View Post
    Let me put on the black hat then...

    Would you tell them not to weight train because they will be using their muscles in Judo and that would be over training? How about body weight exercises?

    If grip training leads to injury in Judo, wouldn't the same hold true for any other outside exercise?

    Case by case. Beginner who is physically fit and used to weight training is fine to continue weight training and even tailor it more specifically to judo training. Beginner who is not physically fit and used to weight training I would not recommend to start alongside starting judo since it will likely overwork them and lead to injury or be detrimental to their progress since they'll be too sore from judo and weights.

    Same thing for grip training except it's a much different set of muscles that aren't typically worked in anything else. Long term weight lifters might have well developed grip muscles and could benefit from extra grip specific training but not your typical noob. As I said before in my experience on the Canadian national team I didn't even run across any guys who seemed to talk about grip specific training nor was it included in any of the programs I got from the national coaches. Judo and regular weight training seemed sufficient.
  3. mike321 is online now

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    Posted On:
    3/07/2009 10:38pm


     Style: kenpo, Wrestling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtripp View Post
    Let me put on the black hat then...

    Would you tell them not to weight train because they will be using their muscles in Judo and that would be over training? How about body weight exercises?

    If grip training leads to injury in Judo, wouldn't the same hold true for any other outside exercise?
    Unfortunately, I have some expertise on being out of shape and doing the "weekend warrior" thing.

    When I take martial arts classes, after 8-10 hrs at a computer, and get home I tend to be restless, then I stay up late, then I am tempted to eat poorly because I am tired at work. Its kind of a vicious circle. Trying to find a balance with this type of work and staying in shape has been a challenge for years. Add kids and keeping time for being married and it gets extreme.

    So in response to your black hat post, if you have a student with a sedentary job and a busy schedule, and is suffering from physical deficiencies in judo, I would have them focus on diet and rest, especially sleep, instead of supplemental exercises. The one exception might be a walk at lunch to break up the long day without physical activity.
  4. WhiteShark is offline
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    1% Shark is better than you.

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    Posted On:
    3/09/2009 9:58am

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtripp View Post
    Let me put on the black hat then...

    Would you tell them not to weight train because they will be using their muscles in Judo and that would be over training? How about body weight exercises?

    If grip training leads to injury in Judo, wouldn't the same hold true for any other outside exercise?
    I was trying to be careful and only ask about true beginners. So NO if they didn't have a weight training program before they started Judo/BJJ I would not suggest that they start one in the first 2 months of training.

    My original post in in response to the numerous threads we see about guys having hand pain after their first or second class. People often suggest grip training as a knee-jerk reaction to muscle group weakness.
  5. Kintanon is offline
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    Yes, I am smarter than you are.

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    Posted On:
    3/09/2009 10:04am

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: TKD, BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I can tell you that after switching to BJJ with the GI my hands hurt like a bitch, but I can already see some pretty rapid gains in my grip strength. I can say that additional grip training would almost certainly be overtraining at this point and I probably won't add it back in for at least 2 months. Most likely I'll wait for my fingers to stop hurting and then give it a couple of weeks after that.
  6. meataxe is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/09/2009 5:36pm


     Style: Wu style tcc+bjj

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Isn't the issue more a case where focusing too much on strength is detrimental to technical progress for a beginner? Not so much "Awww, you hurt your pooor wittle handss."???
    Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices.
    - Voltaire
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