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  1. Odacon is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/12/2007 10:03am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Bits and pieces

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    3 year old thread? Really Lads?
  2. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/12/2007 10:55am

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    Quote Originally Posted by VaderS1
    When the word sport is incorporated to the word combat it ususally means that there are rules set. Real world fights in the streets have no such limitations.
    All dojos have rules so STFU? You CANNOT train self defense with out rules.
    Fallacy #1 destroyed.

    Most street fights end in less than a 20 seconds.
    There are hundreds of videos on the net that disprove this assertion.

    Fallacy #2 destroyed.

    So for the students to compete in sport really pointless. As one that competed in combat sport and also worked as a bouncer and been to many fights. I can honestly say that there is not one technique that I used in the ring that I ever used in a real fight.
    Verification please. We don't like unsubstantiated people here. By the way I've seen people knocked out by right hooks, uppercuts, etc. All used in the ring all used on the street.

    Fallacy #3 blown out of the water.





    I find that the way we train in The Kai is effective for real world combat. Oh and the Dog Brothers may call theirs a sport but we really know that it truly isn't one by all sense of the word. If you have any doubts about the Akumu system check it out... fortcollinsmma.com
    Yes, we all know about dog brothers (very respected) and there are limited rules in their gatherings otherwise, people would end up dead.
  3. Ecks is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/12/2007 1:41pm


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    Quote Originally Posted by Odacon
    3 year old thread? Really Lads?
    ****, I just realized that. Oh well, I didn't bump it. :5yeah:
  4. mrblackmagic is offline
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    My pleasure.

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    Posted On:
    5/15/2007 9:09am

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    Why is everyone under the assumption that if you're trained to fight under a rule set you will always fight under a rule set?
    Sumus extra manum tuam.
  5. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/15/2007 9:16am

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    Because sports don't teach you how to fight. The deadly, no rules, one step, compliant enemy, look ma no blood rules all.
  6. money is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/15/2007 9:19am

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    Quote Originally Posted by blankslate
    "...lost the point of why people train," Brown says. "The black belt has lost its meaning."
    Well, at least they got something right.

    As far as the kendoka vs traditional sword stylist fight, I'd definitely expect the kendoka to win. I started kendo after having 2-3 years of experience in Shinkendo and Toyama Ryu, and it was like starting over. I quickly realized that when I wasn't doing a rehearsed kata, I had no idea what to do vs a real opponent.
    :Determined:
    HTFU and join Bullshido on Fitocracy!
    http://ftcy.co/tBAxyj
  7. kohadril is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/15/2007 10:43am


     Style: BJJ, Debate-Fu

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    God, I just can't resist:

    Quote Originally Posted by VaderS1
    When the word sport is incorporated to the word combat it ususally means that there are rules set.
    As It Is Fake already explained, there are rules no matter how you train. Do you know of any schools that do full contact, no rules sparring? No. You don't. Your only recourse is to demonstrate that full contact sparring with rules is worse or less realistic than light-contact compliant drills and scenario-based training.

    This is ridiculous for multiple reasons, the best being that on the str33t your opponent will be trying to beat you, not playing a part in a drill. In sparring, you're already approximating that attitude: your opponent is trying to win in a full contact sparring match. Additionally, even if scenario-based drills work (and there is basically ZERO evidence that they do), they are necessarily limited; you cannot envision or practice for every scenario. A better strategy is to develop the correct attributes of a fighter: athletic capacity, timing, instincts, power, speed, adaptability, etc, which are important in every situation. These are all developed better by full-contact sparring and sportfighting than by compliant drills.

    Worse still for the light contact/compliance crowd, without full contact sparring or competitive matches, you cannot know whether or not the techniques you intend to use will actually work, or whether or not you can really apply them. Without training the right way, you will vastly overestimate your own capabilities, and be fooled into thinking that the human body is more fragile and attackable than it actually is.

    Finally, do you honestly think that in most "real" fights there aren't at least some social rules in play? I've never been in a fight, but I've seen several, and I've never seen one degenerate into nut-punching, eye-gouging, or trachea-smashing (except for Hackney in UFC 4). People don't like to do those things in front of other people, even when their pride is at stake. Using "deadly" techniques on the street is more likely to result in legal and criminal problems for you, when you have to justify that you couldn't have just punched the guy, you had to rip his eye out, then stomp on his throat. The right to defend oneself is not nearly as complete a legal shield as you may believe it to be.

    And if nut-punching or trachea-smashing worked--if they were techniques that could instantly end fights easily--then they would be common in Vale Tudo, where they are legal. That they are not is demonstrative of how vastly some people overestimate their effectiveness.

    Real world fights in the streets have no such limitations. Most street fights end in less than a 20 seconds.
    This may or may not be true, but you've provided no substantiation. Additionally, what counts as a fight? A single thrown punch? Or does it have to be an actual battle to a clear resolution (one fighter gives up, is KOed, the fight is broken up...)? What's more, MMA matches often last well under a minute, so by your metric, that makes them relatively realistic. Finally, trained sportfighters are likely to be able to end streetfights quickly and in their own favor, since, if I had to guess, the biggest source of short fights is a guy getting punched in the face and deciding it isn't worth it. Sportfighters, as a rule, hit harder, faster, and more accurately than non-sportfighters, given that they are used to hitting people who are good at taking, avoiding, and blocking punches.

    So for the students to compete in sport really pointless.
    For the reasons above, that doesn't follow.

    As one that competed in combat sport
    As is common with claims of this nature, we are predisposed to disbelieve you. Please provide your name, the sport in which you participated, and the organizations that held the events you participated in so that we can verify your fight record through the appropriate channels. If you prefer anonymity, you may provide that information to me privately through the PM system, or by e-mail (I'll send you my e-mail address by PM). I promise that if you agree to this I will keep your name and contact information confidential.

    and also worked as a bouncer
    Please provide verification of this as well; we hear it quite a lot.

    I can honestly say that there is not one technique that I used in the ring that I ever used in a real fight.
    Without verification that you ever, in fact, stepped into the ring, this is a meaningless statement. It's also patently absurd. Which techniques, which are illegal in MMA have you used in real fights instead of punching, kneeing, kicking, throwing, grappling etc? And if the techniques you used in the real world are legal in MMA, why didn't you use them? Why weren't they effective there?

    I find that the way we train in The Kai is effective for real world combat.
    Your anecdotal experience is unmoving. It would be less worthless if you gave us any reason to believe your claims about yourself. It still would be enough to offset the shared experiences of everyone on this site and the massive empirical testing represented by MMA competition, but at least you'd have something to rely on. And don't start with the "I don't care what you think" stuff, because you posted on this site, so you clearly do.

    Oh and the Dog Brothers may call theirs a sport but we really know that it truly isn't one by all sense of the word.
    It's a competitive physical activity geared toward training particular skills and attributes in a rules-governed environment. It's a sport in every single sense of the word.

    If you have any doubts about the Akumu system check it out... fortcollinsmma.com
    You sound like an advertisement. Just a warning.

    Sorry to respond to this guy, I just can't help myself.
  8. Wounded Ronin is offline
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    ...is THE PENETRATOR

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    Posted On:
    5/18/2007 5:28pm

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    I enjoy thread necromancy.
    “nobody shoots anybody in the face unless you’re a hit man or a video gamer.” - Jack Thompson
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Th...%28attorney%29
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