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  1. katana is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/20/2004 3:08pm

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     Style: BJJ, no-gi, boxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Re: Too deadly for competition...the Last Samurai?

    Originally posted by blankslate
    One key difference between bujutsu and more modern martial arts is that students of bujutsu generally do not compete.

    [/B]
    This is not true at all. Duels in fuedal Japan were common among practitioners. Perhaps not the competition they are thinking about, but competition none-the-less. If you don't compete you aren't training well enough. I'd like to see these people use their sword skills against a good kendo practitioner or fencing artist who spars hard with Shinai, foils, pads, and in competition. They'd get their rear ends handed to them.

    Originally posted by blankslate

    "It's a combination of traditional and practical warrior arts as opposed to sport. Instead of being about winning, it's about surviving," says Robin Scoville, 35, a second-degree black belt at the dojo. "They've passed down the art of survival. It wouldn't be here if they didn't survive."

    [/B]
    Another common misconception from people who practice traditional systems but don't spar with them at full speed. They ridicule "sport" systems as inferior when in fact sport practitioners develop the attributes of good fighters in a much more realistic way.


    Originally posted by blankslate

    When he started training 28 years ago, Brown felt as if modern martial arts had softened through the emphasis on sporting.

    [/B]
    Go to a Judo, Boxing, Muay Thai or BJJ school and see how soft they are.

    Originally posted by blankslate

    "They've lost the point of why people train," Brown says. "The black belt has lost its meaning."

    [/B]
    No. They regained it once again from people who ruined the techniques by not using them at full speed. These people are the ones who allowed potentially effective systems to whither and become weak.

    Originally posted by blankslate

    Bujutsu can be scary, Brown says, because it is a martial-arts system Westerners are not used to seeing.

    But the skills are taught slowly in a systematic manner, he says.

    Bujutsu and the samurai code of honor are featured in the film "The Last Samurai," starring Tom Cruise. [/B]
    There are real people doing weapons training that do it for sport reasons and do it realistically. Check out the Dog Brothers, Kendo schools, or any system that uses full-speed fast sparring with real hits. That is how you learn to use weapons. It's not doing kata in the air all day that does it.
  2. Ronin is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/20/2004 3:11pm

    Join us... or die
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I would not include Kendo.
    The shinai is NOT that dangerous.
  3. katana is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/20/2004 3:16pm

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    Originally posted by ronin69
    I would not include Kendo.
    The shinai is NOT that dangerous.
    I'd agree. I've been hit many times with one and they hurt like hell but probably wouldn't kill you. However I think a Kendo person who is handed a bokken or real sword would destroy a person who doesn't spar at all with them in full-speed competition (like this article alludes to). It's the judo principle of practice hard with non-maiming techniques so when you need to use them you can go all out and know they work.

    That's why I think a Kendo person is a much better sword fighter than people who play with swords all day but don't actually hit people with them.
  4. Ronin is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/20/2004 3:31pm

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    well...
    I don't know about that, the shinai is NOT a sword, not even close and I am not sure how much kendo translates to kenjutsu, very little in my opinion.
    Test cutting is more important than most people realise.
    I would give the edge to a kenjutsu practitioner who tests cuts.
  5. katana is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/20/2004 3:48pm

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    Originally posted by ronin69

    well...
    I don't know about that, the shinai is NOT a sword, not even close and I am not sure how much kendo translates to kenjutsu, very little in my opinion.
    Test cutting is more important than most people realise.
    I would give the edge to a kenjutsu practitioner who tests cuts.
    Fair enough. The shinai is much lighter than a bokken and (especially) a real sword. I still think the live full speed practice would allow them to adapt quickly. I worked out with someone who studied Kendo and their swordplay and tactics were excellent. Much better than I've seen with other people who don't practice hitting people. I'd like to find a group that did sparring with bokken. I think that would be a good compromise versus using a real sword. :)
  6. Ronin is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/20/2004 3:52pm

    Join us... or die
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sparring with a bokken ( bokuto) is pretty dangerous in terms of "free sparring" so it is mostly done as pre-arranged sparring.
  7. katana is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/20/2004 4:04pm

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    Originally posted by ronin69
    Sparring with a bokken ( bokuto) is pretty dangerous in terms of "free sparring" so it is mostly done as pre-arranged sparring.
    Amen. I got a broken finger from doing this (but it still didn't stop us from doing it regularly).
  8. Ronin is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/20/2004 4:09pm

    Join us... or die
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You are lucky that is all you got.
    I saw a guy get his head split open cause he lost concentration.
  9. VaderS1 is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/12/2007 5:58am

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    Quote Originally Posted by katana
    This is not true at all. Duels in fuedal Japan were common among practitioners. Perhaps not the competition they are thinking about, but competition none-the-less. If you don't compete you aren't training well enough. I'd like to see these people use their sword skills against a good kendo practitioner or fencing artist who spars hard with Shinai, foils, pads, and in competition. They'd get their rear ends handed to them.



    Another common misconception from people who practice traditional systems but don't spar with them at full speed. They ridicule "sport" systems as inferior when in fact sport practitioners develop the attributes of good fighters in a much more realistic way.




    Go to a Judo, Boxing, Muay Thai or BJJ school and see how soft they are.



    No. They regained it once again from people who ruined the techniques by not using them at full speed. These people are the ones who allowed potentially effective systems to whither and become weak.



    There are real people doing weapons training that do it for sport reasons and do it realistically. Check out the Dog Brothers, Kendo schools, or any system that uses full-speed fast sparring with real hits. That is how you learn to use weapons. It's not doing kata in the air all day that does it.
    When the word sport is incorporated to the word combat it ususally means that there are rules set. Real world fights in the streets have no such limitations. Most street fights end in less than a 20 seconds. So for the students to compete in sport really pointless. As one that competed in combat sport and also worked as a bouncer and been to many fights. I can honestly say that there is not one technique that I used in the ring that I ever used in a real fight. I find that the way we train in The Kai is effective for real world combat. Oh and the Dog Brothers may call theirs a sport but we really know that it truly isn't one by all sense of the word. If you have any doubts about the Akumu system check it out... fortcollinsmma.com
  10. Ecks is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/12/2007 9:46am


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    Quote Originally Posted by VaderS1
    When the word sport is incorporated to the word combat it ususally means that there are rules set. Real world fights in the streets have no such limitations. Most street fights end in less than a 20 seconds. So for the students to compete in sport really pointless. As one that competed in combat sport and also worked as a bouncer and been to many fights. I can honestly say that there is not one technique that I used in the ring that I ever used in a real fight. I find that the way we train in The Kai is effective for real world combat. Oh and the Dog Brothers may call theirs a sport but we really know that it truly isn't one by all sense of the word. If you have any doubts about the Akumu system check it out... fortcollinsmma.com
    ...

    You've never punched someone in the face on the street? Or you've never punched someone in the face in the ring?

    If either is true, I pity you greatly and wonder just how the hell you managed to survive all these years as a bouncer.
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