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  1. honesty is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/11/2009 2:19am


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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRuss View Post
    On the subject of creatine, I remember the article in this thread being pretty good.



    I assume this is the Vitamin D article you were referring to?

    My thoughts on Vitamin D supplementation are covered in (serendipitously) the Paleo Diet thread.
    Thanks, missed that thread first time round.
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  2. Kintanon is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/11/2009 9:02am

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    I'm just saying that source is the wrong place to look for rigorous data in. Not that you shouldn't be looking for it. If they even STARTED going into the intricacies of determining the glycemic index of something, or had a lot of complicated lists of ingredients, or anything like that then people wouldn't read the book. You just need a better source (which may or may not exist) to draw data from for analysis.
  3. Jack Rusher is online now
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    Posted On:
    9/11/2009 10:05am


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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRuss View Post
    Okay, I was hesitant to comment on Paleo Diet because of the risk of re-igniting the flame war
    There was a flame war?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRuss
    Jack Rusher has spoken very highly of [ the Paleo diet ]
    ... with loads of caveats and side commentary, of which more below.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRuss View Post
    Problems I have with this:
    Just to be clear between you and me: there's all sorts of stuff in there that I don't support. As I've said before, there are two use cases for this book: (1) those who want a recipe to follow can just do the diet and it'll work out well enough for them; (2) those who understand some biochemistry should skim the book, then read the papers in its bibliography carefully.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRuss View Post
    glycemic index, "fatty meats", "salty foods", "dairy products" vs lactase, putting oats and quinoa in the same category as corn and wheat is questionable
    The glycemic index approach only makes sense in the context of glucose-mediated metabolic disorder. My guess is that it shows up in so many diet manuals because such an enormous part of the American population is either diabetic or pre-diabetic.

    The fatty meat thing is a hangover from years of Ancel Keys-style research on saturated fats. Crap, the lot of it, though there's some accidental correctness involved when the fat in question is strongly Ω-6 biased.

    I think his salt ideas come from those goofy studies that tried to say that the low sodium content of the San diet was the main factor is their lack of cardiac illness. Crap.

    While I agree that his hard-on for dairy is extreme, it should be noted that lactase is not the only issue. Many people experience an inflammation-increasing systemic autoimmune reaction to dairy proteins. This seems to be a genetic thing for which per-person experiments are the only useful mode of investigation.

    I agree completely about oats and quinoa. He also doesn't look hard enough at traditional processing methods for grains, legumes, &c, that ameliorate most of their problems. My theory is that he's concerned about simplicity in his efforts to provide an easy to follow set of directions (see: Kintanon's comments).
    “Most people do not do, but take refuge in theory and talk, thinking that they will become good in this way” -- Aristotle, Nicomachean Ethics, II.4
  4. TheRuss is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/12/2009 12:10am

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Rusher View Post
    There was a flame war?
    There sure was. With poppycock and everything!

    (I was looking for Poppycock at the corner store, but they didn't have any. D'oh.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Rusher View Post
    ... with loads of caveats and side commentary, of which more below.
    Yeah, I probably should have finished that thought.

    "Jack Rusher has spoken very highly of it (so I haven't written it off), but..."

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Rusher View Post
    Just to be clear between you and me: there's all sorts of stuff in there that I don't support. As I've said before, there are two use cases for this book: (1) those who want a recipe to follow can just do the diet and it'll work out well enough for them; (2) those who understand some biochemistry should skim the book, then read the papers in its bibliography carefully.
    Gotcha.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Rusher View Post
    While I agree that his hard-on for dairy is extreme, it should be noted that lactase is not the only issue. Many people experience an inflammation-increasing systemic autoimmune reaction to dairy proteins. This seems to be a genetic thing for which per-person experiments are the only useful mode of investigation.
    Interesting. Are we talking stuff like this?

    Also, as an aside, I'm starting to think there might be a consumer market for physiological metrics. A company could combine gene sequencing, blood tests, etc. and narrow down a bunch of the "if A then B, if not then C" items to just "A" or "C" based on the results. There could be some real money in it, too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Rusher View Post
    I agree completely about oats and quinoa. He also doesn't look hard enough at traditional processing methods for grains, legumes, &c, that ameliorate most of their problems. My theory is that he's concerned about simplicity in his efforts to provide an easy to follow set of directions (see: Kintanon's comments).
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintanon View Post
    I'm just saying that source is the wrong place to look for rigorous data in. Not that you shouldn't be looking for it. If they even STARTED going into the intricacies of determining the glycemic index of something, or had a lot of complicated lists of ingredients, or anything like that then people wouldn't read the book. You just need a better source (which may or may not exist) to draw data from for analysis.
    I dig. It's just that when I'm following instructions, they just have to be clear - do this, don't do that. If they're not clear, I'm left to extrapolate based on principles established - and those principles don't just have to be clear, they also have to make sense. Does that distinction make sense?

    Right now, I'd probably recommend something by Berardi if I were to recommend anything. His basic rules:

    1) Eat every 2 to 3 hours
    2) Eat lean, complete protein with each meal
    3) Eat veggies with each meal
    4) Eat "other" carbs only during and after exercise
    5) Eat a balanced fat profile containing 1/3 of each type of fat
    6) Ditch the calorie-containing drinks
    7) Use whole foods as your primary source of nutrition
    8) Have 10% foods
    9) Develop food preparation strategies
    10) Balance daily food choices with healthy variety
    There's nothing there that I'd say "**** no" to - #5 is a bit iffy, and #7 and #10 are tough to pull off if #9 isn't quite on track, but on the whole, it's a good plan.
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
    Downstreet on the flip-flop, timepants.
  5. Jack Rusher is online now
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    Posted On:
    9/12/2009 7:13am


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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRuss View Post
    Interesting. Are we talking stuff like this?
    Yeah, plus a bunch of papers on arthritis and a couple on repeated sinus infection rates.

    Aside: On the topic of diet and inflammation, I've noted bizarrely powerful effects from (of all things) adding three tablespoons of flax oil/day to my diet.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRuss View Post
    A company could combine gene sequencing, blood tests, etc. and narrow down a bunch of the "if A then B, if not then C" items to just "A" or "C" based on the results.
    I suspect this sort of thing will play a strong role in the future of preventative medicine.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRuss View Post
    I'd probably recommend something by Berardi
    I generally like his list, though that Keys-esque "lean protein" thing pops up again and #5 isn't anything with which I'd concern myself. What are "other" carbs and "10% foods"?
    “Most people do not do, but take refuge in theory and talk, thinking that they will become good in this way” -- Aristotle, Nicomachean Ethics, II.4
  6. TheRuss is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/12/2009 12:50pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Rusher View Post
    Aside: On the topic of diet and inflammation, I've noted bizarrely powerful effects from (of all things) adding three tablespoons of flax oil/day to my diet.
    Interesting. How much does that work out to by weight? I had briefly gotten into the habit of eating milled flax seed (drinking, actually - I'd mix it with hot water and pretend it was tea).

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Rusher View Post
    I generally like his list, though that Keys-esque "lean protein" thing pops up again
    *digs out Grappler's Guide To Sports Nutrition*

    Okay, he doesn't really comment on the "lean" aspect of it.

    But get this idea straight first – make sure that every time you eat there’s a serving of protein involved.
    My guess is that it's because "lean protein" makes sense in the calorie-sparse way I'd just mentioned. If you combine #1 through #4 (where #4 implies #6), you wind up with "frequently eat things that are calorie-sparse and won't raise your blood sugar along with fiber (except for during/after workouts)", and as far as I'm concerned, that's How Not To Be A Fatass 101 - it's got you covered on nutrients, on satiety vs. calories, and on hormone controls.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Rusher View Post
    and #5 isn't anything with which I'd concern myself.
    To his credit, he does mention omega-3 vs. omega-6 in the explanation of that section (particularly fish oil).

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Rusher View Post
    What are "other" carbs
    On the "other carbs" thing, it's spelled out a bit more in Grappler's Guide To Sports Nutrition:

    Habit #4 – Eat veggies and fruits at any feeding; “other” carbs
    mostly after exercise.
    I think it's a good mix of simple and logical - rather than worrying too much about how particular foods will influence your hormones/blood sugar on a day-to-day basis (again, excluding during and post-workout), just focus on stuffing yourself with foods that won't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Rusher View Post
    and "10% foods"?
    Again, spelled out a bit more clearly in Grappler's Guide To Sports Nutrition:

    Habit #8 – Plan to break the rules 10% of the time.
    The way he puts it:

    The difference, in results, between 90% adherence and 100% adherence is negligible. You just have to be sure you’re clear on what 10% really means. For example, if you’re eating 6 times per day for 7 days of the week – that’s 42 feeding opportunities. Since 10% of 42 is about 4, you get to eat 4 “imperfect” feeding opportunities per week; these imperfect feeding opportunities include both “junk food” and even skipped feedings. Therefore, if you break 1 of the 10 rules, that counts as one of your 10%. So don’t waste your skips by missing a feeding. Schedule your 10% feeding opportunities and enjoy them. Then, with your next feeding opportunity, get back to the rest of the habits.
    Do I think it's as critical for me as it might be for some people? Not so much. Would I contest it as being counterproductive? Probably not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
    Downstreet on the flip-flop, timepants.
  7. Jack Rusher is online now
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    Posted On:
    9/12/2009 8:14pm


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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRuss View Post
    Interesting. How much does that work out to by weight?
    I've recently cut to 170 from my natural 185 in a somewhat painful* attempt to slip into the IBJJF Senior I Lightweight division. The same dose worked the same way at 185 and 170, more didn't help more, but less helped less.

    The idea to try out the heavy flax regime came via a post on a peculiar blog that features one fellow's series of N=1 experiments. One of his readers had noticed some positive changes in his MMA training, so I skeptically gave it a go. As I posted in a comment on his blog earlier today:

    My experience with 3T/day of flax seed oil have been more or less identical to his — before: high doses of NSAIDs just to survive training, constant soreness and fatigue, &c.; after: no joint pain at all, complete discontinuation of NSAIDs, lower frequency and severity of injury.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRuss View Post
    that's How Not To Be A Fatass 101
    Looks pretty good to me too.




    [*] I didn't have much fat at 185 (photo: No BS MMA and Martial Arts - View Profile: Jack Rusher@@AMEPARAM@@View Profile: Jack Rusher</title>@@AMEPARAM@@Jack Rusher), so I've had to re-jigger my training to avoid hypertrophy-inducing exercises and do my best to dump some water weight.
    “Most people do not do, but take refuge in theory and talk, thinking that they will become good in this way” -- Aristotle, Nicomachean Ethics, II.4
  8. TheRuss is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/21/2009 9:12pm

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    I have emerged from the lab (read: my kitchen) with the ultimate in low-carb wrap technology.

    Behold... the reverse burrito.



    That's right. A shell of fried cheese surrounding a hamburger filling. I would have tossed bacon in there too, but I wasn't thinking that far ahead.
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
    Downstreet on the flip-flop, timepants.
  9. TheRuss is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/25/2009 12:31am

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    Onto foods that are less likely to induce crippling constipation... I've been on a spinach kick lately. Going to pick up some more on my next grocery run - mostly for salad purposes. Lots of decent protein options - chunks of chicken, hardboiled egg, bacon, cheese, whatever. I'm trying to figure out the dressing situation, though.

    There was some feta-based dressing at the grocery store that tasted pretty good, but it was very expensive (and canola-based). Currently using some "ranch with bacon" dressing, which is nowhere near as delicious as it sounds. I'm thinking I should make some myself. I'm thinking something creamy, with olive oil and feta, but that's as far as I've figured things out. Any of y'all make your own dressings?

    Edit: If I can find a decent source of flaxseed oil, that might be an option as well.
    Last edited by TheRuss; 9/25/2009 12:50am at .
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
    Downstreet on the flip-flop, timepants.
  10. TheRuss is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/15/2009 7:36pm

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    ... When we think about football, we worry about the dangers posed by the heat and the fury of competition. Yet the HITS data suggest that practice—the routine part of the sport—can be as dangerous as the games themselves. We also tend to focus on the dramatic helmet-to-helmet hits that signal an aggressive and reckless style of play. Those kinds of hits can be policed. But what sidelined the U.N.C. player, the first time around, was an accidental and seemingly innocuous elbow, and none of the blows he suffered that day would have been flagged by a referee as illegal. Most important, though, is what Guskiewicz found when he reviewed all the data for the lineman on that first day in training camp. He didn’t just suffer those four big blows. He was hit in the head thirty-one times that day. What seems to have caused his concussion, in other words, was his cumulative exposure. And why was the second concussion—in the game at Utah—so much more serious than the first? It’s not because that hit to the side of the head was especially dramatic; it was that it came after the 76-g blow in warmup, which, in turn, followed the concussion in August, which was itself the consequence of the thirty prior hits that day, and the hits the day before that, and the day before that, and on and on, perhaps back to his high-school playing days.

    This is a crucial point. Much of the attention in the football world, in the past few years, has been on concussions—on diagnosing, managing, and preventing them—and on figuring out how many concussions a player can have before he should call it quits. But a football player’s real issue isn’t simply with repetitive concussive trauma. It is, as the concussion specialist Robert Cantu argues, with repetitive subconcussive trauma. It’s not just the handful of big hits that matter. It’s lots of little hits, too.

    That’s why, Cantu says, so many of the ex-players who have been given a diagnosis of C.T.E. were linemen: line play lends itself to lots of little hits. The HITS data suggest that, in an average football season, a lineman could get struck in the head a thousand times, which means that a ten-year N.F.L. veteran, when you bring in his college and high-school playing days, could well have been hit in the head eighteen thousand times: that’s thousands of jarring blows that shake the brain from front to back and side to side, stretching and weakening and tearing the connections among nerve cells, and making the brain increasingly vulnerable to long-term damage. People with C.T.E., Cantu says, “aren’t necessarily people with a high, recognized concussion history. But they are individuals who collided heads on every play—repetitively doing this, year after year, under levels that were tolerable for them to continue to play.”...
    -Malcolm Gladwell, Offensive Play (The New Yorker)
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
    Downstreet on the flip-flop, timepants.

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