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  1. Strangler2 is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/07/2004 5:30pm


     Style: Street

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Yiquan as a Fighting Art?

    Someone on another forum wrote that the founder of Yi Quan Wang Xiangzhai was a gifted martial artist man who beat the 1936,Olympic judo champion,1936 Olympic Lightweight boxing champion and numerous other martial artists. He studied at the Shaolin temple (before it was destroyed and turnied into a commercial spectacle like it is today) and specialised in xingyiquan before creating his own method. Kenichi Sawai a high ranking Japanese Judo champion was defeated by him with a beng quan (vertical fist strike to chest or dead) and landed in the exact same spot Wang Xiazhai said he would land before the match even began. Kenichi Sawai is the founder of a Japanese martial art called taikiken that is a mix between Judo and Yiquan.

    A guy called Yao Chenguan who I think was one of his desciples or sons, also has quite a reputation as a full contact fighter. He once competed at Sanshou full contact event and knocked guy out quite severely with punch, also that there was a gentlemans agreement that he would withdraw from the competition as the organisers were worried they could have a fatal incident if Yao continued in competition.



    Last edited by Strangler2; 1/07/2004 8:35pm at .
  2. Strangler2 is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/07/2004 8:24pm


     Style: Street

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Theory
    Learning Yiquan is not just learning new patterns of movements but a completely different mode of movement. That is why a much greater emphasis is placed on the mental component of training. This is particularly important in the beginning, when we are trying to learn the new way of using our body. Practising without paying a close attention to the way we move could easily result in just reinforcing the old mode of movement.

    In contrast to other Chinese martial arts, the concept of Qi is not used. In his early days, Wang Xiangzhai adhered to the traditional concepts and explanations but in his later years, he abandoned them as he considered them outdated and more confusing. Traditionally, Yi (mind) directs Qi (energy) which in turns directs body. In Yiquan, there is no intermediate link. Thus the body is directed only by the mind.

    What follows is a brief outline of the process of learning Yiquan.

    Acquiring whole-body strength.
    explanation: This is the first requirement. At this stage we must learn two skills:

    learning how to generate power using the whole body
    learning how to connect the body together so that the power can propagate through the body to the point of contact with an opponent
    These two goals are closely related but, at the beginning, more emphasis is placed on connecting the body together.
    Maintaining the whole-body connection and strength whilst moving.
    explanation: Keeping our body connected when we are still is not the same as keeping it connected when we move.

    Maintaining the whole-body connection and strength whilst stepping.
    explanation: We have to maintain our connection to the ground whilst stepping. Here we also practise maintaining the connection of the upper and lower body while stepping.

    Learning to propagate power around the whole body at will.
    explanation: This is where we learn how to move power around the body. The feeling created is that a pressure anywhere on our body is met by a spring-like force.

    Releasing strength - basics.
    explanation: So far, we have been 'playing' around with the power 'inside' our body. Here we learn how to use or 'release' the whole-body power in a practical manner.

    Releasing strength in any direction with any part of the body.
    explanation:Once we learn how to 'release' power, we practice different ways and means.

    Manipulating an opponent.
    explanation: Having learnt how to move in a solo manner, we have to learn how to use this new way of movement whilst dealing with someone else. We have to keep the whole-body connection whether we manipulate someone or are being manipulated. In addition we learn how to sense opponent's intention and learn useful techniques for later combat practice.

    Augmenting strength using breath control.
    explanation: Breathing musculature can be used to integrate the centre of the body in a more natural way.

    Learning to fight.
    explanation: This step is only applicable to those students who wish to learn fighting either for self-defence or in order to enter competitions.
    http://www.yiquan.org.uk/
  3. JKDChick is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/07/2004 8:36pm

    staff
     Style: JKD, BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hmmph.

    This is actually an interesting thread.
    Monkey Ninjas! Attack!
  4. Jenfucius is offline

    Shogun of Long Island

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    Posted On:
    1/07/2004 8:44pm

    Join us... or die
     

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    i'm getting tired of all these old stories about CMA teachers who could fight. my current teacher was a san shou champ when san shou was starting out in the 1980's and learned xing yi quan from his family and various other styles in his studies at beijing institute of physical education. and he's only in his forties. he is a chinese internal martial arts master who can fight and who is alive today. he really doesn't get enough props for who he is and what he does.

    i think it would be different if he spoke more english and was more adept at self-promotion.
  5. Jenfucius is offline

    Shogun of Long Island

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    Posted On:
    1/07/2004 8:46pm

    Join us... or die
     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    besides, everyone knows that pi quan defeats beng quan as surely as spring follows winter!
  6. WingChun Lawyer is offline
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    Modesty forbids more.

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    Posted On:
    1/07/2004 9:04pm

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai, BJJ newbie.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'll have to disagree, Edge. That is just a different way of learning how to control your body, which is NOT useless in a fight.

    I never got around to trying i-chuan, but my wing chun sifu practices it sometimes and says it is great for body awareness.
    That civilisation may not sink,
    Its great battle lost,
    Quiet the dog, tether the pony
    To a distant post;
    Our master Caesar is in the tent
    Where the maps are spread,
    His eyes fixed upon nothing,
    A hand under his head.


    - W.B. Yeats
  7. Jenfucius is offline

    Shogun of Long Island

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    Posted On:
    1/07/2004 9:19pm

    Join us... or die
     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!!!
  8. SamHarber is offline

    Taking a break

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    Posted On:
    1/08/2004 4:28am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yiquan is a valid art, being a derivative of xing yi, but the founder has all the usual myths and tales of being undefeatable in his youth. If people are prepared to stop the hero worship of their founders (bruce bloody lee included) and their unsubstantiated tales, then TMAs would take a great leap forward.
    Taking responsibility for my actions since 1989
  9. Strangler2 is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/08/2004 4:38am


     Style: Street

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    so is the story true about Yao Chenguan not being able to fight in San SHou competitions because of almost killing a man?
  10. Greese is offline
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    Motorboatin SOB

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    Posted On:
    1/08/2004 4:49am

    supporting member
     Style: Judo and BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by Strangler
    so is the story true about Yao Chenguan not being able to fight in San SHou competitions because of almost killing a man?
    Don't think any one of us was there.
    And wasn't this on another thread?
    And that's when I figured out that tears couldn't make somebody who was dead alive again. There's another thing to learn about tears, they can't make somebody who doesn't love you any more love you again. It's the same with prayers. I wonder how much of their lives people waste crying and praying to God. If you ask me, the devil makes more sense than God does. I can at least see why people would want him around. It's good to have somebody to blame for the bad stuff they do. Maybe God's there because people get scared of all the bad stuff they do. They figure that God and the Devil are always playing this game of tug-of-war game with them. And they never know which side they're gonna wind up on. I guess that tug-of-war idea explains how sometimes, even when people try to do something good, it still turns out bad.
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