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  1. DerAuslander is offline
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    Valiant Monk of Booze & War

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    Posted On:
    2/25/2009 2:40pm

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I was talking about the form of a woman, not kung fu.

    Wait.

    Yes.

    Nevermind.
  2. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

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    Posted On:
    2/25/2009 2:42pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Rusher View Post
    Traditional training, at least as I've been exposed to it, starts with jibengong (conditioning), which involves repeating a conditioning or application movement that later shows up in the forms.

    One of the more peculiar apparent paradoxes about what I've studied is that, while such things do indeed point back to the forms as you've just pointed out, the actual learning progression could be considered inverted from what you just pointed out.
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
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  3. nomamao is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    2/25/2009 3:28pm


     Style: Hung Ga Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hey, if it works, then use it.
  4. Jack Rusher is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    2/25/2009 4:04pm


     Style: ti da shuai na

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kagan View Post
    One of the more peculiar apparent paradoxes about what I've studied is that, while such things do indeed point back to the forms as you've just pointed out, the actual learning progression could be considered inverted from what you just pointed out.
    Could you help me understand this? I'm not sure I'm getting the gist of it.
    “Most people do not do, but take refuge in theory and talk, thinking that they will become good in this way” -- Aristotle, Nicomachean Ethics, II.4
  5. Homernoid is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/25/2009 6:23pm


     Style: Taijiquan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My medicine man always pointed out that when pushing something or somebody heavy it makes a lot of sense to tuck the ass in. In fact, usually people tend to do so naturally.
    The reason to do so is to to minimize the injuryrisk of the intervertebral disk between the vertebras in question while leading force from your feet way up through your hips into the pushing part of your body.

    At least for me, it does sound reasonable and works out.

    That's my two pence.
  6. Jack Rusher is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/03/2009 7:09pm


     Style: ti da shuai na

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    For Ming Loyalist, a bit more on the subject of posture...

    Dr Ken Fish, an excellent IMA guy who also treats people for postural problems in his career as a chiropractor, recently had this to say in the comments to a recent post at Formosa Neijia:

    My teachers have all remarked on how “hanxiong babei” seems to have been interpreted as “aoxiong tuobei” (collapsing the chest and slouching). Chen Panling’s preface to his Taiji book makes this point too, and states that Hanxiong should be interpreted as relaxing the chest and emptying it of tension - neither sticking it out or collapsing it (protracting the shoulders). Babei is as if being pulled up - the spine should pull in both directions.
    This came up in the context of the common Yang practice of rolling the tailbone under and "relaxing" the shoulders forward (i.e. "senile posture"). I've heard a number of theories for how this got started (emulating old men too closely, taking "don't let your ass stick out" to mean "roll your pelvis forward," &c), but it seems like a bad idea to me in any case.

    For a video example of what I consider to be good posture, here's Chen Zhonghua doing 13 postures from the front, side and back:

    YouTube - Chen Zhonghua's Chen Style Yilu 13 Moves

    Take care.
    “Most people do not do, but take refuge in theory and talk, thinking that they will become good in this way” -- Aristotle, Nicomachean Ethics, II.4
  7. NJM is offline
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    Putting the "ow" back in "flowery technique"

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    Posted On:
    3/03/2009 7:42pm


     Style: CMA, MT

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quick question because I'm seeing a lot of implications thrown around:

    Is it the consensus that squats are more effective isometric training than horse stances, and offer the same benefits but more so, and that the horse stance builds nothing a squat can't, etc?
  8. It is Fake is offline
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    Administrator

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    Posted On:
    3/03/2009 8:34pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    How about you tell us the benefits you were told/perceive to get from holding a static horse stance for a long period of time?
  9. Ming Loyalist is offline
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    solves problems with violence

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    Posted On:
    3/03/2009 8:53pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, Hung Family Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Rusher View Post
    For Ming Loyalist, a bit more on the subject of posture...

    Dr Ken Fish, an excellent IMA guy who also treats people for postural problems in his career as a chiropractor, recently had this to say in the comments to a recent post at Formosa Neijia:



    This came up in the context of the common Yang practice of rolling the tailbone under and "relaxing" the shoulders forward (i.e. "senile posture"). I've heard a number of theories for how this got started (emulating old men too closely, taking "don't let your ass stick out" to mean "roll your pelvis forward," &c), but it seems like a bad idea to me in any case.

    For a video example of what I consider to be good posture, here's Chen Zhonghua doing 13 postures from the front, side and back:

    Take care.
    hey, thanks man.

    i think we're on the same page about posture, after all. it's not super exxagerated, but the hips are a little tucked.

    i've been doing a chi gung set from a book of tim cartmel's, that you might find interesting, actually. we should hang.
    "Face punches are an essential character building part of a martial art. You don't truly love your children unless you allow them to get punched in the face." - chi-conspiricy
    "When I was a little boy, I had a sailor suit, but it didn't mean I was in the Navy." - Mtripp on the subject of a 5 year old karate black belt
    "Without actual qualifications to be a Zen teacher, your instructor is just another roundeye raping Asian culture for a buck." - Errant108
    "Seriously, who gives a **** what you or Errant think? You're Asian males, everyone just ignores you, unless you're in a krotty movie." - new2bjj
  10. Ming Loyalist is offline
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    solves problems with violence

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    Posted On:
    3/03/2009 9:03pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, Hung Family Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    How about you tell us the benefits you were told/perceive to get from holding a static horse stance for a long period of time?
    ok, i'll go with this.

    my sifu has always advocated both static horse and squats, old skool methods as well as weights.

    we were told that static horse (we're talking about 5-10 minutes maximum would give us a stronger base and allow us to more effectively use the horse stance in both forms and fighting.

    the main fighting applications involve dropping one's hips and bodyweight (not necessarily into what looks like a low horse stance.)

    one can be a response to a hip throw attempt, and a way to set up a throw of one's own.

    another is when certain overhand techniques are used, it can be beneficial to drop the body weight into these strikes, and having a good horse stance seems to help. i actually find it useful quite often, but find it hard to describe.

    the closest comparison i can find in boxing would be the "stepping" jab, where a forward step is taken with the jab, and the jab hits at the same time as the weight drops on the front foot, making the punch stronger. dempsey explained it better than i, but maybe jack knows what i mean.
    "Face punches are an essential character building part of a martial art. You don't truly love your children unless you allow them to get punched in the face." - chi-conspiricy
    "When I was a little boy, I had a sailor suit, but it didn't mean I was in the Navy." - Mtripp on the subject of a 5 year old karate black belt
    "Without actual qualifications to be a Zen teacher, your instructor is just another roundeye raping Asian culture for a buck." - Errant108
    "Seriously, who gives a **** what you or Errant think? You're Asian males, everyone just ignores you, unless you're in a krotty movie." - new2bjj
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