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  1. Jack Rusher is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/23/2009 11:18am


     Style: ti da shuai na

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ming Loyalist View Post
    in the crossfit videos they are making an effort to stick their asses out and arch the spine.
    In the first video he's holding a natural lumbar curve while leaning forward, which is different from exaggerating the lumbar curve while holding the torso upright (lordosis, or "sticking out the ass"). Increased flexibility makes it easier to stay upright during the motion, as does widening the feet into a "Sumo Squat." (Compare Jackie Chan's posture -- feet closer together, slight forward lean -- to Kurz's wider stance with an erect spine).

    For an example of someone who can drop very deep with a proper spine, have a look at what Akuzawa does at ~0:44 of this video:

    YouTube - Akuzawa Minoru

    ... I saw a YT video of him doing sumo squats with his hands over his head that would make a great example of what I'm talking about, but I can't find it.

    Sadly, the only good profile shot of this kind of horse stance I can find is partially obscured by a spear. Here's Chen Ziqiang (Chen Bing's little brother):



    He's "sunk" into the stance, which is to say that his torso is much as it would be standing. Consequently, his ass doesn't stick out as much as it would if he were leaning forward. It's important to note, though, that he hasn't over-corrected into kyphosis (flattened lower back).
    “Most people do not do, but take refuge in theory and talk, thinking that they will become good in this way” -- Aristotle, Nicomachean Ethics, II.4
  2. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/23/2009 12:50pm

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     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    No, this is not your Grand Master's horse stance.

    Please (TMAers in general) do not say this is what you use it for, I will lock the thread. Unless, you use it in the exact way it is described, your horse stance in a form doesn't equal these videos.

    But what if I do use it as described (the foundation for leg strength) and it's in my form that way, but with a wider hip spread as Jack describes to allow for a more upright posture?
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

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  3. Scott Larson is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/24/2009 11:45pm


     Style: Ba Zheng Dao Quan

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    Jack, maybe this is what you're referring to?

    YouTube - tenchijin
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  4. Jack Rusher is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/25/2009 9:09am


     Style: ti da shuai na

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Larson View Post
    Jack, maybe this is what you're referring to?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDoLK...eature=related
    Naw. IIRC, it's in the middle of a demonstration while teaching.
    “Most people do not do, but take refuge in theory and talk, thinking that they will become good in this way” -- Aristotle, Nicomachean Ethics, II.4
  5. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/25/2009 9:30am

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     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kagan View Post
    But what if I do use it as described (the foundation for leg strength) and it's in my form that way, but with a wider hip spread as Jack describes to allow for a more upright posture?

    Looks at explanation
    *shakes head*




    Do I need to pull up those old thread with the "I sit in a static stance for hours" "I have superior leg strength because, I hold Horse stance for years" threads?
  6. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/25/2009 9:41am

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     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    Do I need to pull up those old thread with the "I sit in a static stance for hours" "I have superior leg strength because, I hold Horse stance for years" threads?

    No, you don't.

    I think I'll put my new cameraphone to some use and make a video of the form of which I speak. If you don't agree, you dopeslap me. (Free free to make fun of me for attention whoring, regardless.)
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
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  7. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/25/2009 9:56am

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     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Okay you are missing my point. I said general because for every you (as in yourself Jack Cullion etc) there are thousands that do what we argue about.

    In other words a strictly Passive horse stance.

    To me, just with your explanation, it sounds like you do it exactly as Jack described. If you crib a little to me that is fine.

    None of us are perfect so
    in my form that way, but with a wider hip spread as Jack describes to allow for a more upright posture?
    is a minor stylistic difference.

    Now, if all you do is a passive horse stance (standing still for hours) then I'll dopeslap you. Of course that involves travel and I really hate flying. :)
  8. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/25/2009 12:41pm

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     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    Now, if all you do is a passive horse stance (standing still for hours) then I'll dopeslap you. Of course that involves travel and I really hate flying. :)
    If that's what it takes to get you to come out and play, I might very well troll you with a passive low & square horse video. :smile:


    Yes, it's not static; It's repeated squatting. But even the low & square horse position is not something people associate with the 'nun-who-must-not-be-named' style. And, god forbid if I commit the heresy of pointing out the reason to do it is to develop more power. (The chun has power training? Hah!)
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
    Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
    Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
    Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
    Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
    Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a ***** or just cruising for some
    I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
    TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
    ATTN TOM KAGAN
    World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
    Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
    I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
    Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.
  9. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/25/2009 12:59pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Boy I'm glad I don't have to clean your toilets.

    Power squats in the chun.
    Next you'll be telling me people can fight with the chun.


    Sheesh.
  10. Jack Rusher is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/25/2009 2:03pm


     Style: ti da shuai na

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    On the question of static horse stance in CMA, I've only ever seen it used like the "wall sit" in the above videos: as a preparatory exercise for dynamic work. Traditional training, at least as I've been exposed to it, starts with jibengong (conditioning), which involves repeating a conditioning or application movement that later shows up in the forms. Here's a baji example:

    YouTube - bajiquan jibengong
    (IIF, notice how much it looks like xingyi when it's practiced this way.)

    Shuaijiao jibengong moves from this kind of thing:

    YouTube - shuai jiao jibengong
    (sorry I couldn't find a better video)

    ... to apparatus training, like this:

    YouTube - Shuaijiao
    (N.B. close foot horse, bent forward at the waist.)

    Der108's assertion that a form is a syllabus is on target. Training the conditioning exercises and technical drills contained in the forms is much more useful than running the forms.
    “Most people do not do, but take refuge in theory and talk, thinking that they will become good in this way” -- Aristotle, Nicomachean Ethics, II.4
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