Horse Stance / Bodyweight Squat Videos

**Jack Rusher** · Posted On: 2/23/2009 10:18am

Originally Posted by Ming Loyalist

in the crossfit videos they are making an effort to stick their asses out and arch the spine.

In the first video he's holding a natural lumbar curve while leaning forward, which is different from exaggerating the lumbar curve while holding the torso upright (lordosis, or "sticking out the ass"). Increased flexibility makes it easier to stay upright during the motion, as does widening the feet into a "Sumo Squat." (Compare Jackie Chan's posture -- feet closer together, slight forward lean -- to Kurz's wider stance with an erect spine).

For an example of someone who can drop very deep with a proper spine, have a look at what Akuzawa does at ~0:44 of this video:

YouTube - Akuzawa Minoru

... I saw a YT video of him doing sumo squats with his hands over his head that would make a great example of what I'm talking about, but I can't find it.

Sadly, the only good profile shot of this kind of horse stance I can find is partially obscured by a spear. Here's Chen Ziqiang (Chen Bing's little brother):

He's "sunk" into the stance, which is to say that his torso is much as it would be standing. Consequently, his ass doesn't stick out as much as it would if he were leaning forward. It's important to note, though, that he hasn't over-corrected into kyphosis (flattened lower back).

**Tom Kagan** · Posted On: 2/23/2009 11:50am

Originally Posted by It is Fake

No, this is not your Grand Master's horse stance.

Please (TMAers in general) do not say this is what you use it for, I will lock the thread. Unless, you use it in the exact way it is described, your horse stance in a form doesn't equal these videos.

But what if I do use it as described (the foundation for leg strength) and it's in my form that way, but with a wider hip spread as Jack describes to allow for a more upright posture?

**Scott Larson** · Posted On: 2/24/2009 10:45pm

Jack, maybe this is what you're referring to?

YouTube - tenchijin

**Jack Rusher** · Posted On: 2/25/2009 8:09am

Originally Posted by Scott Larson

Jack, maybe this is what you're referring to?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDoLK...eature=related

Naw. IIRC, it's in the middle of a demonstration while teaching.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 2/25/2009 8:30am

Originally Posted by Tom Kagan

But what if I do use it as described (the foundation for leg strength) and it's in my form that way, but with a wider hip spread as Jack describes to allow for a more upright posture?

Looks at explanation
*shakes head*

Do I need to pull up those old thread with the "I sit in a static stance for hours" "I have superior leg strength because, I hold Horse stance for years" threads?

**Tom Kagan** · Posted On: 2/25/2009 8:41am

Originally Posted by It is Fake

Do I need to pull up those old thread with the "I sit in a static stance for hours" "I have superior leg strength because, I hold Horse stance for years" threads?

No, you don't.

I think I'll put my new cameraphone to some use and make a video of the form of which I speak. If you don't agree, you dopeslap me. (Free free to make fun of me for attention whoring, regardless.)

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 2/25/2009 8:56am

Okay you are missing my point. I said general because for every you (as in yourself Jack Cullion etc) there are thousands that do what we argue about.

In other words a strictly Passive horse stance.

To me, just with your explanation, it sounds like you do it exactly as Jack described. If you crib a little to me that is fine.

None of us are perfect so

in my form that way, but with a wider hip spread as Jack describes to allow for a more upright posture?

is a minor stylistic difference.

Now, if all you do is a passive horse stance (standing still for hours) then I'll dopeslap you. Of course that involves travel and I really hate flying. :)

**Tom Kagan** · Posted On: 2/25/2009 11:41am

Originally Posted by It is Fake

Now, if all you do is a passive horse stance (standing still for hours) then I'll dopeslap you. Of course that involves travel and I really hate flying. :)

If that's what it takes to get you to come out and play, I might very well troll you with a passive low & square horse video. :smile:

Yes, it's not static; It's repeated squatting. But even the low & square horse position is not something people associate with the 'nun-who-must-not-be-named' style. And, god forbid if I commit the heresy of pointing out the reason to do it is to develop more power. (The chun has power training? Hah!)

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 2/25/2009 11:59am

Boy I'm glad I don't have to clean your toilets.

Power squats in the chun.
Next you'll be telling me people can fight with the chun.

Sheesh.

**Jack Rusher** · Posted On: 2/25/2009 1:03pm

On the question of static horse stance in CMA, I've only ever seen it used like the "wall sit" in the above videos: as a preparatory exercise for dynamic work. Traditional training, at least as I've been exposed to it, starts with jibengong (conditioning), which involves repeating a conditioning or application movement that later shows up in the forms. Here's a baji example:

YouTube - bajiquan jibengong
(IIF, notice how much it looks like xingyi when it's practiced this way.)

Shuaijiao jibengong moves from this kind of thing:

YouTube - shuai jiao jibengong
(sorry I couldn't find a better video)

... to apparatus training, like this:

YouTube - Shuaijiao
(N.B. close foot horse, bent forward at the waist.)

Der108's assertion that a form is a syllabus is on target. Training the conditioning exercises and technical drills contained in the forms is much more useful than running the forms.