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  1. DarkPhoenix is offline
    DarkPhoenix's Avatar

    I feel like you eyeballin' me, dawg!

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    Posted On:
    2/17/2009 4:05pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, JJJ, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hesperus View Post
    Am I the only one that even tries to differentiate between a spinning side and a spinning back kick anymore?

    Another one here.

    I use the turn around side kick as a counter move to a back leg kick, in particular for a roundhouse or a side kick. I stay planted though, as it is difficult for me to move my bulk up and spinning at the same time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Holy Moment View Post
    BJJ JOE: I'm going to make hate to you. Right here, right now.
    ... Ohhhhhhhh, I'm going to make hate to you so hard that your kinfolk back in Africa will feel it.l
    Quote Originally Posted by Archer
    Karate is the Dane Cook of martial arts
  2. maofas is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    2/17/2009 7:54pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kenkojuku Karate, Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkPhoenix View Post
    Another one here.

    I use the turn around side kick as a counter move to a back leg kick, in particular for a roundhouse or a side kick. I stay planted though, as it is difficult for me to move my bulk up and spinning at the same time.
    I don't believe there is a point to a turning side kick; spinning back kick fill the exact same role you just mentioned.

    Spinning side kick is just a back kick that overspun. Mind you, sometimes I overspin too, and it may still work, but it's just causing it to be a fraction slower and lose power.

    This ties in to what GojuJoe was saying about the back kick being a hook punch type move (i.e. at it's strongest when hitting the target bent at an angle).

    That not actually true, but when the kick gets "interrupted" by the target being at a closer distance (see first gif) the knee is still pointed down as the person hasn't gotten a chance to overspin, so the kick is still in it's proper position. When people are further away, if a person's tendency is to overspin, it'll be a sidekick by the time they make contact and a lot of power will have leaked away (a side kick is still pretty strong tho!). The strongest hit would be at the last few of inches of extension at the end of a perfect kick, but you're probably not going to see that too often as people tend to get caught coming in as the other person fades away.
    Last edited by maofas; 2/17/2009 8:14pm at . Reason: Clarity.
  3. TEA is offline
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    Now iz BBQ Timez?

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    Posted On:
    2/17/2009 11:15pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: TKD, Relson GJJ, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Here's one that is seriously mislabeled. This one looks a bit harder to call between a jump turning sidekick or a jump back kick, but I'm going to go with jump turning side kick. Here's why - even though he doesn't fully chamber the kick to the side, it is more to the side than it is under him. Also, his hip extension as he throws the kick is way more side kick than back kick. In any case, he KTFO his opponent.

    YouTube - Roundhouse K.O. to the dome
    Mushi mo atsui hodo
    Mushiatsui

    Originally Posted by chuey
    ...Well **** if that isn't the most anti-Mr. Miyagi **** I have heard in ages.

    Two wrongs don't make a right, but
    Three rights make a left.
  4. billy sol hurok is offline
    billy sol hurok's Avatar

    Welterweight

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    Posted On:
    2/18/2009 8:04am

    supporting member
     Style: age&treachery

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Amazing we've gotten this far without someone posting this:

    YouTube - Chuck Liddell Teaches the Spinning Back Kick

    His comment about impetus is helpful.
  5. Liam Cullen is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/18/2009 8:54am


     Style: MMA, TKD

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TEA View Post
    Here's one that is seriously mislabeled. This one looks a bit harder to call between a jump turning sidekick or a jump back kick, but I'm going to go with jump turning side kick.
    I'd call it a jump spin sidekick too. His leg comes around him, rather than under, resulting in his knee being horizontal to the floor, rather than facing it. With a back kick the knee should be facing at a downwards angle, almost like the way a donkey kicks. The pin side and back kicks can be used for different situations, personally I use the spin sidekick for advancing/attacking and the back kick more usually as a counter or when closer in. The spin sidekick lacks some of the power but the extra rotation of the shoulders allows easier follow-up techniques. If you check out some Cung Le fights it seems he also tends to use the spin sidekick version when chasing people down.
  6. TEA is offline
    TEA's Avatar

    Now iz BBQ Timez?

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    Posted On:
    2/18/2009 12:28pm

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     Style: TKD, Relson GJJ, Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ^^^ Excellent points.
    Mushi mo atsui hodo
    Mushiatsui

    Originally Posted by chuey
    ...Well **** if that isn't the most anti-Mr. Miyagi **** I have heard in ages.

    Two wrongs don't make a right, but
    Three rights make a left.
  7. Beorn is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/04/2009 1:45am


     Style: TKD, judo, MT noob

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TEA
    Excellent points
    completely agree, but I have a question: Has anyone ever drilled a kick like the one the fighter in the first gif throws, specifically one that doesn't extend at all and all the power is completely from the rotation of the hips, with at most 1/4 extension?

    I ask because we did at my TKD school, it was called the "c" kick, and it was devastating at close range, as the fighter in the first gif showed.

    A back kick was taught like everyone here is saying, knee pointed down and foot perpendicular to the floor, as a counter to round kicks and as a way to push out of clinch range. The power came from driving towards your opponent off the base foot and the extension of the leg.

    a spinning/jump spinning side was used basically the same way (except not for breaking the clinch) but as a slightly longer range option, and for chasing (again because of the longer range) Another minor difference that I was taught was that the power came from the rotation of the hips instead of a push off the base leg.
  8. Liam Cullen is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/04/2009 4:40am


     Style: MMA, TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    We certainly drilled the kick that way, without the extension, but always just refered to it as a back kick. And yes, it hurts like hell! :)
  9. Dempsy Roll is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    3/04/2009 4:27pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Kickboxing, swashbuckling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So it seems to me that the spinning back kick is more or less a spinning side kick without the full extension. Since they're both 'linear' movements with the force pushing the opponent straight back, the spinning portion is more or less the same motion of kicking the hips back quickly as you turn (see: 0:51 in the Chuck video). From there it's pretty much a matter of distance. You either kick your foot back a little bit and catch them in close or as they're coming in with a spinning back kick or you continue the movement, extend your leg and finish turning your hips over, and hit them with a spinning side kick as you move forward or as they're moving away.

    You could argue that a spinning side kick is 'properly' done with the kicking leg chambered and at a 90 degree angle to your planted leg (parallel to the ground), but that doesn't really make any sense. Since you're using the forward momentum and rotation of your hips to give you your additional power you're going to want to keep everything as close to your center of mass as possible until the last second. The tighter everything is, the faster you spin - that's why figure skaters pull all of their limbs in close when they want to spin like some kind of crazy bladed dervish. Or for a closer to home and slightly more violent comparison, think of the spinning hook kick. You don't bring your kicking foot sweeping up from the floor, you keep it chambered until you're further through the rotation.
  10. Hesperus is offline
    Hesperus's Avatar

    it's all vanity

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    Posted On:
    3/04/2009 6:51pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kano-Gracie

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm pretty sure unless you're Ramon Dekker, it's just better if you don't mention spinning hook kicks.
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