Hardbody training can cause Arthritis?

**Mortyr** · Posted On: 2/14/2009 3:33am

Ive heard that hardening the fist on the wall or wood can cause athritis when ur older, what about hardening the forearms, ribs and shins?

**vile_zoidberg** · Posted On: 2/14/2009 4:36am

I've heard similar things, but as I'm too lazy to do actual research, here are my uneducated thoughts:

Arthritis in hands? Yes, bunch of repeated hard impact on knuckles (which are more than a single muscle or bone) will **** up your hands. Fighters wear handwraps for a reason.

As far as forearms, ribs, and shins, I don't think it's possible to get arthritis in jointless areas, as the definition of arthritis is inflammation of the joints (I could be wrong, don't quote me on that), but it is possible to **** up other things. Nerve damage is one I hear a lot about.

**socratic** · Posted On: 2/14/2009 5:35am

Repeated fractures and whatnot would certainly take its toll on your bones as you age. What was once a minor structural flaw is now a major one etc. Athritis? Maybe. I think if you were a hardcore knuckle conditioner (you ever see Mas Oyama's knuckles?) you'd end up with pretty useless hands by the end of your life.

**Teh El Macho** · Posted On: 2/14/2009 8:40am

Originally Posted by Mortyr

Ive heard that hardening the fist on the wall or wood can cause athritis when ur older, what about hardening the forearms, ribs and shins?

The answer is yes, yes it can.

Also, make the effort to spell and write correctly. That is rule #2 of posting for this forum - the rules of posting are outlined in the sticky threads.)

**Diesel_tke** · Posted On: 2/14/2009 9:01am

Well, I hate to be nit picky but I think you are combining two different things because they have similar effects. Arthritis can come in different forms. It can be crippling to the joints, but it can also be caused by nothing...As in Rheumatoid Arthritis which requires a certain Rheumatoid factor in your blood stream. If you have this factor, you are predisposed to getting arthritis. Then you have osteoarthritis that can be caused by degeneration of the bone. This can come from over using the bone/joint. It can also be post traumatic.

So then the question can be can trauma to the knuckles cause arthritis. Yes, you can get degenerative arthritis in your knuckles. But this type of degeneration is usually caused by severe trauma, such as one that would require open-reduction-internal-fixation. That would be far more sever than degeneration caused by punching or "hand conditioning".

Small trauma to a bone can cause tiny stress fractures. These stress fractures heal by calcium being formed over the bone. This actually makes the bone more dense. Thus making it harder. If the hand conditioning is done correctly, then you will successfully make your bone harder.

Now the question would be how do you do it properly. This is virtually impossible to know because of the predispositions that I mentioned earlier. Some people's bones react differently than others. You would have to have a doctor do extensive bone density studies and blood tests to determine that. Which would be really expensive.

So you would need to question why you are doing those techniques. Is it just because you think it would be cool? Then weigh that against not being able to use your hands when you get older.

If you don't plan on needing to punch through walls, then there is no reason to do this type of hand conditioning. Do it the easier way and the safer way. Punch a back and kick a bag, this will do the process a lot slower and safer.

Sorry so long winded.

**killwill** · Posted On: 2/14/2009 6:38pm

This would go along with Muay Thai guys having their shins fucked up when they got older right?

**Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs** · Posted On: 2/14/2009 6:49pm

Originally Posted by diesel_tke

...If you don't plan on needing to punch through walls, then there is no reason to do this type of hand conditioning. Do it the easier way and the safer way. Punch a back and kick a bag, this will do the process a lot slower and safer...

QFT

killwill, vile_zoidberg and Mortyr, use bagwork to slowly harden the bones (hand, feet, shins, elbows, knees, firearms, etc...). Also with this method you will give your body time to fortefy the tendons, skin and make the muscles more impact resistant.

So that in 20 years from now you won't feel 40 years older.

**killwill** · Posted On: 2/14/2009 7:15pm

Originally Posted by Zendokan

QFT

killwill, vile_zoidberg and Mortyr, use bagwork to slowly harden the bones (hand, feet, shins, elbows, knees, firearms, etc...). Also with this method you will give your body time to fortefy the tendons, skin and make the muscles more impact resistant.

So that in 20 years from now you won't feel 40 years older.

That's the plan. But where I was training we did some body hardening drills with partners so I'm interested a deeper discussion on this. I'll probably look it up before I start asking questions though haha

***JohnnyCache*** · Posted On: 2/14/2009 7:17pm

"Real" arthritis is a genetic disease. Body conditioning can irritate that disease, and it can also cause stiffness and soreness later in life that people call "arthritis" generically.