CMA/OMA overlap in Naihanchi kata"?

[Ming Loyalist]

SHUT THE **** UP!

that might have something to do with it.

[DerAuslander]

Oh...that's all?

Phew.

[Scott Larson]

Is this where I'm supposed to create this "e-drama" that I've heard of?

Okay, I'll try.

DerAuslander108, even though you swear a lot, I don't think you're a bad guy.

Hmm... I don't think I'm very good at this.

[Permalost]

It's got a variation from savate called fut de bas, or some such. Somebody else can correct my lack of french.

coup de bas

[Jack Rusher]

It's got a variation from savate called fut de bas, or some such. Somebody else can correct my lack of french.

coup de bas

Literally: low blow. :smile:

JP: Fût is the French word for the shaft or stem of a tool, and -- most importantly -- a wooden cask, thus in Belgium one enjoys "une bière au fût" (beer from the cask, draft beer).

[DerAuslander]

Well, in the spirit of creating e-drama, there are two researchers who's Naihanji theories smell of BS to me.

1) Bruce Clayton, author of "Shotokan's Secret", states that the kata was used to teach fighting while shielding someone with their back to the wall, a "bodyguard" kata. Unrelated, he also explains one-legged stances in Chinto as being used for "fighting on stairs".

Right...

2) Nathan Johnson, author of "Barefoot Zen" has deconstructed Naihanji into a long & overly complex lockflow, based on the theory it was developed by Shaolin monks & monks don't use "deadly" techniques. Mr. Johnson claims to be a Zen teacher, but I am unsure as to withwhom he is associated...

Right....

[DerAuslander]

You can YouTube Nathan Johnson's Naihanchi lockflow. Someone do me a favor & find it for me so you can judge for yourselves.

[Jack Rusher]

You can YouTube Nathan Johnson's Naihanchi lockflow. Someone do me a favor & find it for me so you can judge for yourselves.

YouTube - Zen Shorin Do in 2001 Naifuanchin&Applications. Part 4 of 4

I find these applications highly dubious. Maybe I just agree with the video's description: "Please note that this is not a fighting art but a meditative art."

[It is Fake]

It reminds me of the Kata School from back in my early days on Bullshido. Where the guy changed his website make sure it was clear it wasn't a Self Defense based art.

[1point2]

BTW, Jack, when I'm finished learning Wanshu, we need to work on it. The gentleman for whom the kata was named was a Chinese sailor who was renowned on Okinawa for....
....
...his shuai jiao.

I've heard of good evidence (records of a Chinese military attache named Kushanku coming to the Okinawan royal court) for Kusanku, but that Wanshu was only a theory that was largely agreed upon.

As for pigeon-toed, we have three stances that people do Tekki/Naihanchi/Naifanchi/Naihanji in.

Kiba dachi, standard in most Japanese or Shorin-Ryu schools (particularly where it's been split into 3 katas)


Some (particularly Motobu--an authority on Naihanchi if there ever was one) do a less extreme kiba dachi and call it Naihanchi-dachi:


And Isshinryu-ers and others derived from Kyan Chotoku (without the major kata changes that occurred in most Shorin-Ryu schools) do a Tomari-derived (let me check that in the Okinawan Teachers, Styles, and Hidden Techniques before you believe it) naihanchi-dachi that is, dun-dun-dun, pigeon-toed:


My opinion is that the deep stance derived from the Chinese, who wanted to develop lower-body strength, that the toes-in derived from Sanchin-dachi (identical but with 1 foot forward) and has no real application, and that the experts (ahem...Motobu) just did the kata standing up and walking side-to-side. Modern Motobu-ryu karate practitioners do it very loosely and without emphasis on low or toes-in stances.

Also, that lockflow is eye-bleeding bad. As is the monstrously misguided Clayton hypothesis, and the closely-related "It's for fighting on the planks above rice paddies" bullshido-theory.