CMA/OMA overlap in Naihanchi kata"?

**Jack Rusher** · Posted On: 2/13/2009 2:32pm

Originally Posted by It is Fake

That kick is in many CMA arts. The one you are referring to made me laugh because, it is the oft repeated Knee stomp crippling kick in the dreaded _ing _un.

It shows up in SE Asian MA too, like silat and Thai boxing. Brandon Vera recently used it to put a hurting on Keith Jardine:

... although Jardine ultimately won the fight, proving both that it's a useful technique and that it isn't a magical fight ender.

JP · Posted On: 2/13/2009 3:05pm

Originally Posted by Jack Rusher

It shows up in SE Asian MA too, like silat and Thai boxing. Brandon Vera recently used it to put a hurting on Keith Jardine:

... although Jardine ultimately won the fight, proving both that it's a useful technique and that it isn't a magical fight ender.

In silat I believe it's called a tundit kick.

It's got a variation from savate called fut de bas, or some such. Somebody else can correct my lack of french.

It's got a lot of uses and it's variations, which are often mistaken for different kicks, are actually all the same. It can be a stomp to the knee or instep, it can be a sweeping kick that has a lot of similarities with some judo foot trips, it can be used from grappling range as nasty kuzushi, and I've had a lot of luck using it to disrupt sparring partners footwork when it connects with their ankle from the front or side.

Is is really useful? Maybe not, but if it's already in your toolbox there's no harm in using it. I like it.

**1point2** · Posted On: 2/13/2009 3:16pm

The kick seems to have been preserved during the transmission of martial practices from China to Okinawa, but lost during the transmission to Japan & Korea. Too bad.

BTW, half the Isshinryu-ers on the planet do a Naihanchi drill that's all about trapping (catch their backfist, throw your own, repeat with timing and circling/advancing footwork). A wing chunner friend (she was not too bad, either) loved it since it reminded her of all the WC stuff she used to do.

Some Okinawans go so far as to do some variation of sticking hands, or other hands-touching drills (like Goju-ryu's drill where you start from opposite wrists touching, take turns pressing into the opponent's chest with resistance, and enter into strikes, takedowns, and locks).

**Kobayashi** · Posted On: 2/13/2009 3:51pm

I've studied both Shorin-Ryu and Baguazhang (although just starting, no expert). I really don't see any Bagua influence in the Naihanchi kata at all. And, none of the Bagua I've seen utilizes a pigeon-toed stance. However, I do think the Naihanchi kata in particular seems to have more of a cma flavor than some of the other Shorin-Ryu kata.

***DerAuslander*** · Posted On: 2/13/2009 7:54pm

Many Shorin-ryu kata were invented in Okinawa rather than imported from China. Some are based off of Chinese teachings (Kusanku, Wanshu, etc both named after their respective CMA teachers).

Other news, I worked with my Sorim-ryu teacher today & mentioned the Naihanji/Parting the Wild Horse's Mane connection. He's never trained Taiji, but has Baihe & Wing Chun experience & confirmed what we'd been discussing.

BTW, Jack, when I'm finished learning Wanshu, we need to work on it. The gentleman for whom the kata was named was a Chinese sailor who was renowned on Okinawa for....
....
...his shuai jiao.

**NJM** · Posted On: 2/14/2009 10:53am

Originally Posted by Kobayashi

. And, none of the Bagua I've seen utilizes a pigeon-toed stance.

What do you mean by "pigeon-toed stance"?

Wuji stance from bagua sounds like what you're describing.

**Scott Larson** · Posted On: 2/14/2009 11:55am

Originally Posted by DerAuslander108

Many Shorin-ryu kata were invented in Okinawa rather than imported from China. Some are based off of Chinese teachings (Kusanku, Wanshu, etc both named after their respective CMA teachers).

Other news, I worked with my Sorim-ryu teacher today & mentioned the Naihanji/Parting the Wild Horse's Mane connection. He's never trained Taiji, but has Baihe & Wing Chun experience & confirmed what we'd been discussing.

BTW, Jack, when I'm finished learning Wanshu, we need to work on it. The gentleman for whom the kata was named was a Chinese sailor who was renowned on Okinawa for....
....
...his shuai jiao.

Are you visiting NYC at some point?