Modern Fencing: Any translation to Reality?

**SBG-ape** · Posted On: 2/18/2009 4:02pm

Originally Posted by templar9

I was doing epee before I join ARMA...the only thing I gained is a better estimation of timing and distance...and a little bit of good lunging with the rapier...
Furthermore sport fencing -besides good exercise-has nothing to offer to the real European fencing arts....because it is a sport!
It has certain limitations and the hits are more tags and whippings than actual hits .... the weapons are feather weight and they only move in a straight line e.t.c....
So....besides the above it has nothing to offer!
It is still an enjoyable sport but not a fighting art in any case!

I agree that sport fencing is of limited value to real swordsmanship but I think "it's a sport" is a rather poor reason for such a position. There are many sports that teach useful things about combat (boxing, savate, greco-roman & freestyle wrestling; just to name a few western sports) but in the case of sportive fencing it's a sport with unrealistic weapons & overly restrictive rules that fail to relate it to the real fighting art. That does not mean that, simply because something is a sport, that thing is automatically of no value in understanding combat.

**thorthe power** · Posted On: 2/20/2009 8:57am

:XXknight: I enjoyed fencing, but never got into that whole right of way rule....I always thought who gives a sh*t about "right of way"...who ever is first/faster has the right of way.

Fencing is to SCA/ARMA as Pointfighting is to Kickboxing/MMA

**selfcritical** · Posted On: 2/20/2009 10:24am

Which means out there is someone who is the lyoto machida of full-contact weaponry and will dominate Dog Bros and ARMA free-scholars with foil techniques.......

**odysseus_dallas** · Posted On: 2/20/2009 4:10pm

Originally Posted by selfcritical

Which means out there is someone who is the lyoto machida of full-contact weaponry and will dominate Dog Bros and ARMA free-scholars with foil techniques.......

Priceless.

//I'd love to spar a Dog brother, by the way. They train good and hard, it'd be an awesome fight.

P.S.: Free scholars? There is no such thing as free scholars. You must be mistaken. They're Scholar Adepts
PS.2:Btw, he made that change a few days before he arrived for our seminar and our group's then-free-scholar-now-scholar-adept-testing and we were all like w00t?

**Dirty Rooster** · Posted On: 2/20/2009 5:30pm

My point has been made ;

Originally Posted by selfcritical

Fundamentally, the problem is that sport fencing is not really ABOUT USING A BLADE. ...

Originally Posted by odysseus_dallas

...
Seriously, though, the problem starts with the simplest and most obvious of things: the weapons themselves. When you're wielding a "sword" with a pistol-like grip (what are we doing here, gunblade stuff?), an antenna for a blade, and a total weight of a few hundred grams... ....

Even the actions of striking, defending, damaging are absolutely different when using a more rigid and edge-aligned BLADE ... I frigging hate the bendy crap.
Even the 'classical fencers' use a lot of bendy crap, I've seen it with my own eyes. Bastards.
I'm just sore at losing a knockout round to an antenna which was posing as a 'smallsword' observed by a clueless judge. I would've parried a proper weapon every time. *boing*. Bastards!

Early days I guess.

**Dirty Rooster** · Posted On: 2/20/2009 5:33pm

Originally Posted by SBG-ape

... That does not mean that, simply because something is a sport, that thing is automatically of no value in understanding combat.

Rugby Union being a case in point.

**SBG-ape** · Posted On: 2/20/2009 5:56pm

Originally Posted by Dirty Rooster

Rugby Union being a case in point.

Exactly. On a side note, I keep expecting Rugby to be the next big thing in MMA.

**Neo Sigma** · Posted On: 2/28/2009 8:15am

Finally, somewhere on Bullshido I can actually be not completely useless. I just recently stopped fencing after ten years of it(the last five being fairly serious competing), and most of what's been said is probably right as far as actual physical applications to combat sports. I find the place I can most apply my fencing experience is the tactical side of it. For instance, there's a place in EVERY MA out there for the ability to be someplace else when your opponent attacks, or suckering them into doing exactly what you wanted them to and then slamming the trap shut.

You'll almost definitely learn that kind of stuff in any decent MA also. But if you're like me and fencing's been all you've done for a long time, it certainly helps to go in already having that knowledge.

**omoplatypus** · Posted On: 2/28/2009 10:59am

i took a fencing PE class in 8th grade for one grading period. it was lots of fun but never really helped me out much. 4 summers ago when i started doing boffer weapons, i realized the only thing that ever worked was to parry with the tip still aiming at your target.

it is a fun sport though.

**selfcritical** · Posted On: 2/28/2009 3:13pm

Originally Posted by white_kimbo

i took a fencing PE class in 8th grade for one grading period. it was lots of fun but never really helped me out much. 4 summers ago when i started doing boffer weapons, i realized the only thing that ever worked was to parry with the tip still aiming at your target.

it is a fun sport though.

That last part is actually an important detail of any viable sword art(atleast from what i've seen of thai, filipino, and western sword arts), so there you are.