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  1. Naszir is offline
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    Senior Member

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    ATX
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    Posted On:
    2/12/2009 10:43pm


     Style: BJJ, Judo, SAMBO

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Stew
    There actually isn't a Ringen group in town. Luckily for me I have some friends who train BJJ, so I work ringen against them. Sparring usually goes like this, I hit a takedown, they tap me out. Rinse, repeat. If you have any friends in town who'd be interested I'd be game.

    Do you find that your ringen work gives some defense against their submissions by putting you in better position from the takedown?




    Also my friends that might be interested are in West Monroe (546 area) or North Monroe (Frenchman's Bend). Oddly enough, there is a large group of us from Monroe/West Monroe and Shreveport here in Austin (sort of like evacuees only without Katrina). But all of them are too lazy to train, they just want to be musicians and Myspace comedians.
  2. TheMightyMcClaw is offline
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    MADE OF STEEL!

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    Posted On:
    2/13/2009 12:42am

    supporting member
     Style: Kung Fu Swordfighting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Interesting. I've seen backhold before, and I've had a decent amount of success adapting the backhold grip to takedowns for BJJ. I managed to get a harai goshi/sweeping hip throw and a yoko otoshi/side drop earlier this evening from it.
    From a cultural persective, I find it interesting how most forms of folk wrestling seem to be mostly takedown-oriented (Glima, Backhold, Mongolian Wrestling, etc.) and less commonly pin-oriented ( such as American Folkstyle or Senagalese folk wrestling) and even less commonly submission oriented (such as BJJ).
    I know the ancient greeks were really big on submissions, but that's about all I can think of traditional sub-based grappling.
    Last edited by TheMightyMcClaw; 2/13/2009 12:47am at .
  3. DdlR is offline
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    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    2/13/2009 1:32am

    supporting member
     Style: Bartitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    When jujitsu was first introduced to Europe (by good old E.W. Barton-Wright), the whole concept of submission grappling was entirely novel to British wrestlers. It was actually very controversial at the time.

    The closest English folk-wrestling got to submission holds was Lancashire catch, which used "pain holds" to encourage opponents into pins.
  4. adouglasmhor is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    2/13/2009 4:51am


     Style: Les Mills Bodycombat™

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In an old black and white movie about Cornish Fishermen there was a scene where they met some Bretons during a festival and the Cornish ended up being ostracised for cheating after one of them used a shin kick which was allowed in thier variant but not in the Breton version.


    There's clog fighting in the north of England too, stand up grapling with shin kicks from wooden soled shoes.
  5. Stew is offline

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    Monroe, La
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    Posted On:
    2/13/2009 9:32am


     Style: Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Naszir
    Do you find that your ringen work gives some defense against their submissions by putting you in better position from the takedown?




    Also my friends that might be interested are in West Monroe (546 area) or North Monroe (Frenchman's Bend). Oddly enough, there is a large group of us from Monroe/West Monroe and Shreveport here in Austin (sort of like evacuees only without Katrina). But all of them are too lazy to train, they just want to be musicians and Myspace comedians.
    I do my best to land in side control if possible. My partners have, understandably so, gotten very good at getting back to guard when this happens. Which has forced me to start moving to improve my position as soon as we hit the ground. At the moment I'm working my way through the Codex Wallenstein. This was my go to move for the longest. http://www.thearma.org/Manuals/44.jpg. My friends all call it the German Leg Reap.

    Oddly enough, I teach music down the road from the bend at a private school. I'm sure you can guess which one. If you're ever in town let me know, we can roll. Anyway, sorry to stray so far off topic. It's interesting to me too that most wrestling styles seem to be orthia pales and are often belt/jacket styles.
  6. Jack Rusher is online now
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    Posted On:
    2/13/2009 9:48am


     Style: ti da shuai na

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMightyMcClaw
    I know the ancient greeks were really big on submissions, but that's about all I can think of traditional sub-based grappling.
    In addition to Greek Pale, which was continued by the Romans (and then their Mediterranean provinces), there are traditional sub-grappling systems from (at least) Persia, northern India and parts of SE Asia.

    I've got some theories about why most wrestling is done until a fall or a pin, but that conversation doesn't belong in this forum. You can probably work it out from this factoid: the Spartans famously refused to compete in Pankration because they were culturally adverse to the idea of voluntary submission (i.e. saying "uncle" is for cowards).
    “Most people do not do, but take refuge in theory and talk, thinking that they will become good in this way” -- Aristotle, Nicomachean Ethics, II.4
  7. Permalost is online now
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    2/14/2009 6:54pm

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Those glima matches on hardwood floors looked painful.
  8. korn_995 is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/20/2009 2:21pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    there is a guy in louisiana who runs the new world celts chapter in lafayette that is very knowledgable about celtic wrestling
  9. Dirty Rooster is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/20/2009 6:07pm


     Style: Basic Self-Defence

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I find the word 'celtic' irritating.

    Anyway, our milkman was local Cumberland&Westmorland champ many years running. That's pure backhold wrestling. British, not 'celtic' *spit*.
  10. Lindz is online now

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    Burnaby B.C.
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    Posted On:
    2/21/2009 9:31am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Rusher View Post
    In addition to Greek Pale, which was continued by the Romans (and then their Mediterranean provinces), there are traditional sub-grappling systems from (at least) Persia, northern India and parts of SE Asia.

    I've got some theories about why most wrestling is done until a fall or a pin, but that conversation doesn't belong in this forum. You can probably work it out from this factoid: the Spartans famously refused to compete in Pankration because they were culturally adverse to the idea of voluntary submission (i.e. saying "uncle" is for cowards).
    Spartans are too deadly to spar obviously.

    Spits on the Brit above. Only Englishmen refer to themselves as British.
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