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  1. Deadmeat is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/10/2009 5:34pm


     Style: Mixed Martial Arts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteShark
    The OP was about 2 techniques as illustrated in his book. Not his entire book and not his personal ability to win fights. Just because Fedor is awesome does not mean his technique can't be put under the same microscope we use for every ridiculous ninja master that posts their techniques.
    Agreed. On that note, several people have said that the "Russian hook" is a well known (albeit somewhat unpopular in certain circles) striking technique. It's applicability for the average person is questionable. Could you make it work? Yeah. Is it necessarily the best option? No.

    I honestly don't think that anyone is going to try and replicate every technique displayed in fedor's, or any other book. Ordinarily, you take what interests you, pressure test against resisting opponents, and keep it if it works, or discard it if it doesn't.

    I showed my coach the two entries in question, and he said, "Yeah, they clearly work for Fedor. I wouldn't teach every student the punch, but some might benefit from it. "

    The kick wasn't controversial at all. Interestingly, our coach was more concerned about Fedor's use of a high right hook while in an orthodox stance, but that's a topic for another day.
  2. theotherserge is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/10/2009 6:19pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: sambo/crossfit

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Anyone here remember Vovchanchyn vs Inoue? A good fighter at that time, Igor beat Enson's head into the floor with exactly this kind of punching.

    OTOH, we had Barnett (a wrestler who's worked hard on "traditional" striking) mostly mounted vs Yvel and barely able to GnP a tapout in <three rounds.

    Do you Sugar Ray Robinson wanna-be's want to continue asserting that this is only about hugging KO-Fed's nuts?
    Many things we do naturally become difficult only when we try to make them intellectual subjects. It is possible to know so much about a subject that you become totally ignorant.
    -Mentat Text Two (dicto)
  3. bobyclumsyninja is offline
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    :)

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    Posted On:
    2/10/2009 10:43pm

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     Style: Ex-Tiger KF, ex-SanDa

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintanon
    Unfortunately yes, Fedor falls into the category of someone who is so insanely good that they can make any kind of stupid **** win.
    this is bonkers, it's not stupid ****. If someone had his build, and some athleticism, they could use these. They don't exist, for fun. They have been shown to work, for certain body types. Don't hate on the stocky people, they gotta throw down too.

    Thank you for the Igor reference, theotherserge, he's another superb striker, who also loops his punches, and fights in a similar manner to Fedoreo. I doubt the fencing-affectation in their jabs, rub purists the wrong way, cos it's no threat (har har, no direct threat). He also busts out that same leg kick, to great effect.

    In boxing, Joe Calzaghe has caught a lot of flak, for 'slapping' and 'pittypaddy' as he handily won every fight for 17 years. (He last lost as an amateur, some 100 fights ago).
    Saying he has poor technique, ignores the fact that fighting, is a results based thing.

    I remember how Jeff Lacy, and then Kessler, and then Roy Jones jr, and Bernard would all school him. Forms or fighting, people.

    The two techniques in question can work. I know this, because I do a spin-off-jab that essentially is the counter-punch version of that hook. It all evolves at the end, right before contact. Some of the beatings I've taken in class before, involved stocky fighters looping punches, around my guard (see Fedor vs Silvia/AA/etc). That hook works, but it works best for a certain build, relative to the opponent.

    I've also landed hundreds of those kicks, against even some very talented people.
    I don't have their build, and can make them go, sometimes. Anyone who thinks Igor, Fedor and others are making a mistake fighting in their manner, should understand their approach more-often-than-not comes from experience. You're gonna jab, jab, jab, cross hook hook like a traditionalist if you give up 6" of reach? I hope not.

    and yeah, I'd buy his book. I don't paint like Turner, or Degas, or David, or Titian etc, but I sure studied their work, in detail, and at length, as an essential aspect of my training to do my own thing.

    I play my Armstrong, and Miles, and Bach, and Chopin, though I don't emulate their style, directly.
    Ignoring what the best in the world has to offer, is a little thick.:alien:
  4. WhiteShark is offline
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    1% Shark is better than you.

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    Posted On:
    2/11/2009 9:01am

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Boby if you want to draw art comparisons think more about Jazz and less about carefully arranged symphonies. Imitating jazz is about as dumb as it gets. You can study what people do and if you understand WHY it works for them you can use those aspects without imitation. I'm still waiting to learn something from Fedor about striking other than be a huge Russian with an iron chin.
  5. scorchedearth is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/11/2009 12:11pm


     Style: muaythai

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Isn't the kick that Fedor demonstrates the common 'short' kick used in Muay Thai or other forms of kickboxing?

    We were taught to use that kick when working the heavy bag, IIRC.
  6. theotherserge is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/11/2009 12:20pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: sambo/crossfit

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by scorchedearth
    Isn't the kick that Fedor demonstrates the common 'short' kick used in Muay Thai or other forms of kickboxing?

    We were taught to use that kick when working the heavy bag, IIRC.
    ssshhhh, don't give teh reel strikers an anuryism!
    Many things we do naturally become difficult only when we try to make them intellectual subjects. It is possible to know so much about a subject that you become totally ignorant.
    -Mentat Text Two (dicto)
  7. WhiteShark is offline
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    1% Shark is better than you.

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    Posted On:
    2/11/2009 12:35pm

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     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by scorchedearth
    Isn't the kick that Fedor demonstrates the common 'short' kick used in Muay Thai or other forms of kickboxing?

    We were taught to use that kick when working the heavy bag, IIRC.
    Yes that's why I didn't comment on the kick. A perfect example of the Muay Thai version was on the last UFC fight night where Cain Velasquez kept doing at long clinch range. Very similar mechanics to the kick Fedor describes.
  8. Fighting Cephalopod is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/11/2009 1:58pm

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     Style: ZHOO ZHITSU

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This thread: a drama in three parts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Strikers
    Some of Fedor's punching technique is pretty unorthodox; it works for him because of his specific attributes, but I wouldn't recommend it for everyone.
    Quote Originally Posted by theotherserge
    Oh yeah, well how come he KOed arlovski then, huh?
    Quote Originally Posted by everyone who's ever watched Arlovski fight before
    Because Arlovski's got a glass jaw, duh.
    Quote Originally Posted by theotherserge
    Oh yeah, well how come he has 6 other KOs, huh?
    Quote Originally Posted by everyone who's seen Fedor fight and doesn't get their facts from wikipedia
    He doesn't; he has 2, and they're over complete cans.
    Quote Originally Posted by theotherserge
    Oh yeah, well how come he was able to GnP Nog for three rounds, huh?
    Quote Originally Posted by everyone with a lick of sense
    Good GnP technique and good standup technique have nothing to do with each other, you retard.
    Quote Originally Posted by theotherserge
    Oh yeah, well what about my completely irrelevant example of Barnett having a hard time GnPing a guy?
    Quote Originally Posted by everyone tired of this
    Take your medication.
    Undisputed KING OF ASSHOLES.
  9. theotherserge is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/11/2009 2:35pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: sambo/crossfit

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Fighting Squidhead
    I don't like that people disagree with me and it makes me petulant
    if that's the best you can do then you really do suck.

    You want to separate anatomical movement into phases then go ahead.

    This striking is based on particular hand-fighting styles and footwork and research. Not research by a chunner and his diagrams, but the oppressive research of Soviet era sports scientists (NO! I am not going to talk about goddamned _ystema!)

    One of the conclusions is that standup punching and grounded punching can be linked. It has to do with generating power from the hips thru the shoulders, not from the feet+hips.

    I'm not asserting it is for everyone, I'm not asserting its Fedor-specific. I am asserting that it is learn-able by anyone and there is the rub with "strikers"

    If you want to have a discussion about it, that would be interesting, this ^is not.
    Many things we do naturally become difficult only when we try to make them intellectual subjects. It is possible to know so much about a subject that you become totally ignorant.
    -Mentat Text Two (dicto)
  10. Fighting Cephalopod is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/11/2009 2:57pm

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     Style: ZHOO ZHITSU

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by theotherserge
    if that's the best you can do then you really do suck.
    The "best I can do" is summarize how you've been wrong about everything you've said so far.

    This striking is based on particular hand-fighting styles and footwork and research. Not research by a chunner and his diagrams, but the oppressive research of Soviet era sports scientists (NO! I am not going to talk about goddamned _ystema!)
    Prove it.

    One of the conclusions is that standup punching and grounded punching can be linked. It has to do with generating power from the hips thru the shoulders, not from the feet+hips.
    People are not asserting that his hooks lack power, they're asserting that in the standup portion of the match wide hooks such as he uses has several disadvantages when compared to a tighter, more compact style such as is found in more traditional western boxing. Stating that his hooking style gives him power in GnP is completely irrelevant to whether or not said hooks are superior or inferior technique when standing. His GnP prowess or other people's lack of it is not relevant to discussion, because there is nothing preventing people from using Fedor-esque looping shoulder-driven punches when they GnP and tighter, more compact boxing-style hooks on the feet, so even if his hooking style is god's gift to GnP it doesn't mean it's the best possible way of punching on the feet.

    If you want to have a discussion about it, that would be interesting, this ^is not.
    If you'd like to have a discussion about Fedor's GnP technique, I suggest starting a thread about it in MMA discussion or the Grappling subforum. This is strikeistan, people are discussing his standup technique. If you think they're wrong in saying that his hooking technique isn't as good as more traditional boxing hooks in the standup, then start making arguments about the pros and cons of his hooks on the feet. How effective they are on the ground is not relevant to the discussion.
    Undisputed KING OF ASSHOLES.
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