2/10/2009 12:52pm, #41Originally Posted by bobyclumsyninja
Originally Posted by bobyclumsyninja
2/10/2009 2:36pm, #42Originally Posted by WhiteShark
Take Fedor's iron chin and amazing accuracy out of the equation and you get a lot of sloppy technique that other people aren't making work.
This sounds to me, like saying take Michael Jordans legs and amazing accuracy away, and you'd have one sloppy basketball player.
Take tiger woods swing, and amazing accuracy away, and he'd not be a great golfer.
Deny George Carlin swear words, and sarcasm, and he wouldn't sound that funny.
Take the logic out of Sherlock Holme's tales, and Dr Watson away, and you'd have a sloppy fictitious detective agency.
Remove all the punctuation out of Charles Dickens' writing, and you'd have a load of sloppy literature.
He is one of the best strikers in the game. Whether or not he's one of the best teachers, or instructional booklet authors would be a different question.
'Technique' is a means to an end, effective fighting. By that standard, that guy has good striking technique, but it may be based on his idiosyncratic traits as a fighter, and not general ease of application for noobs, or unserious/unsuited mentalities and or body types.
2/10/2009 2:43pm, #43
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I think the point is that the set of effective punching techniques is larger in MMA than in striking sports. Probably the set of effective kicking techniques is somewhat smaller too.
The haymaker and related hook variants clearly work in MMA, and clearly don't work in boxing, etc. That doesn't make them 'bad form' anymore than the Thai roundkick may be 'bad form' when viewed from TKD.
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2/10/2009 3:06pm, #44Originally Posted by KidSpatula
Just because they get taken down and beaten on the ground doesn't take anything away from their striking ability.
You don't "adapt your striking to MMA" you just learn how to grapple. Guys like Cro Cop, GSP and Anderson Silva are awesome kickboxers and their kickboxing still works in MMA. That's my point. They didn't have to relearn how to punch and kick now that takedowns and small gloves were involved.
GSP was out stuck by Matt Serra, primarily a grappler.
Anderson Silva has lost fights in the past (Pride, I don't remember how)
Their kickboxing often works in mma, but they have lost, meaning, their techniques, for all their flash, and brilliance, had holes. Holes that led to defeat. Fedor's striking ALWAYS works for him.
If striking technique in a fight or confrontation, leads to defeat, then it does speak to the quality of it. If someone habitually overextends their cross, like a good boxer should...they're gonna pay in kickboxing, and mma/sambo etc. A kickboxer who lands brazillian kicks all day, is just open himself up for a massive counter more often than not.
A world champ chunner in teh triangle stance n' ****...well, you get the picture.
Wouldn't the best test of a striker be, when he has to strike, but can't count on his opponent only striking? much less can be taken for granted, in terms of position and balance, in those instances.
By this test, Fedor wins in the EPIC manner. Or at least places. Regardless of whether or not it can be replicated by others. He is a great striker.
AND they do have to adjust it all. It's very common to train boxing, MT, BJJ and also mma specifically, for cage particulars, and to use them together. Grappling when punched in the face, is a lot different. Same goes for kickboxing when you can be tackled, or slammed. Or boxing with leg kicks, you need a different stance etc.
Last edited by bobyclumsyninja; 2/10/2009 3:11pm at .
2/10/2009 3:59pm, #45
Boby you are forgetting the context of this discussion. It is about 2 techniques in Fedor's book. BOOKS ARE FER LEARNIN'
If the content isn't worth learning unless you are Fedor what is the fucking point?
No one is saying Fedor's style doesn't work FOR HIM. It obviously does. However, more traditional striking (ie Kickboxing/Boxing) has shown dramatically more success for more people. Your counter examples actually prove that. You are giving examples of strikers defeated by grapplers who learned good striking!
2/10/2009 4:42pm, #46
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Is he a great striker? Obviously.
Will learning from his books and trying to fight using Fedor's style work for most people? Doubtful.
2/10/2009 4:57pm, #47
You can make up for a lot of sloppy technique with sheer athleticism. Fedor is durable, strong, has excellent timing and distancing skills and is aggressive and while these traits have nothing to do with technique, they can win you a lot of fights all on their own. His striking technique also happens to be better than terrible, which is better than the majority of MMA fighters, so that combined with all the attributes mentioned above makes him a force on his feet in the world of MMA. His striking technique is still crappy enough that he doesn't really have much business selling it in a book to all the Fedor nutriders that would love to be him.
You point about the fighters I mentioned having lost MMA fights is pretty rediculous. No matter how bad ass your technique is, you're going to get hit and in MMA getting hit by one big sloppy punch that you didn't manage to counter or avoid for whatever reason (and there are countless many) in 4oz gloves by a ~200lb athlete can easily ruin your day. You make one stupid mistake and you get kicked in the head and KO'd by someone who you should beat easily, ala Cro Cop. Guess what? Top level kickboxers lose kickboxing matches too. Does this mean there's some sort of technical failing that they haven't worked out or that they need to learn something new? No, it just means that their opponent happened to get the better of them on that particular day. If you simply judge a fighter's technical ability based on winning or losing, you've got a pretty serious misunderstanding of what fighting is all about.
2/10/2009 5:01pm, #48
You guys should take alook at his book beore you say all that, you dont need to throw hooks and roundhouses like him to use his techniques.
2/10/2009 5:20pm, #49Originally Posted by Domite
2/10/2009 5:25pm, #50
Unfortunately yes, Fedor falls into the category of someone who is so insanely good that they can make any kind of stupid **** win. Anderson Silva belongs in this same category as well. So any literature they produce should be scrutinized carefully to determine whether mere mortals are capable of using those techniques effectively. Or AS effectively as other similar techniques.