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  1. theotherserge is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/20/2009 1:54am

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    [QUOTE=Meager;2063083]i was taught to put the opposite hand in front of my face and to strongly rotate the same side arm as it drops down which brings my shoulder up to protect my chin.[quote]

    Roll up your shoulder to protect your chin, same as with throwing a Russian Hook...

    igor is another guy with sick power and an iron chin. post a video of a guy who uses these hooks effectively that doesn't have a world class chin and power.
    So if a traditional striker gets ko'd, "it happens" but nothing is disproven?
    there is plenty of vid out there of all variety of strikers getting KTFO'd. That invalidates nothing, but, beyond a certain point "hand placement" becomes a semantic debate.
    Many things we do naturally become difficult only when we try to make them intellectual subjects. It is possible to know so much about a subject that you become totally ignorant.
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  2. Meager is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/20/2009 2:15am


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    i don't understand your reply.

    no one is saying that russian hooks are completely useless for everyone. some people are saying that they only work for people with jaws of iron and that can already hit like a ton of bricks. to counter this argument, you post videos of igor vovchanchyn, a fighter well known for having a jaw of iron (even if he did once get koed by a cro cop head kick) and hitting like a ton of bricks.
  3. theotherserge is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/20/2009 2:30am

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    you shouldn't be listening to them...they don't undestand the technique
    and toss out red herrings as replies
    Many things we do naturally become difficult only when we try to make them intellectual subjects. It is possible to know so much about a subject that you become totally ignorant.
    -Mentat Text Two (dicto)
  4. Sinluvin is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/20/2009 10:41am

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    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteShark View Post
    If your goal is to be quick to the target and protect yourself while landing your shot then Fedor is clearly "sloppy". Despite that he can also cleanly land shots on his intended target. If you want to call that sloppy accuracy go ahead but it does make you sound pretty stupid.

    I was pointing out the logical disconnect in the earlier statements made by you and your ilk.

    What if his goal is to impart as much momentum as he can to exactly where he wants it? NOW he's not sloppy. The whole start of this dreary thread was upon thoughts on execution and trainability of a skill that Fedor has spent many hours aquiring. Wandering off on a tangent of the aesthetics of the skill or how it wouldn't work in pro boxing is totally pointless.

    In fact, it makes you sound pretty stupid.
  5. selfcritical is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/20/2009 11:14am


     Style: Pekiti, ARMA, other stuff

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    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteShark View Post
    If your goal is to be quick to the target and protect yourself while landing your shot then Fedor is clearly "sloppy". Despite that he can also cleanly land shots on his intended target. If you want to call that sloppy accuracy go ahead but it does make you sound pretty stupid.
    Fedor doesn't just get hit lots and defend using his iron chin.


    FEDOR GETS HIT LESS THAN MACHIDA. Seriously, read the fightmetric numbers. He moves his head well and rolls off a lot of strikes as well.

    Fedor is not Nog. He's not consistently weathering beatings in order to get in close. He's avoiding shots more effectively than Anderson fucking Silva.

    Yes, fedor has a very good chin. But it doesn't actually get hit very often. This would be a clue that his chin is not the only thing making his striking work.
  6. theotherserge is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/20/2009 11:33am

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    kewl! Nicely put, self-critical.

    The "striking" point I was getting at re:roundhouse kick is that a properly thrown MT kick will provide you defensive cover not just from hand position but overall body mechanics.

    That and the threat of a good attack can make it hard to counter along the centerline during the punch. What are you guys, chunners?
    Many things we do naturally become difficult only when we try to make them intellectual subjects. It is possible to know so much about a subject that you become totally ignorant.
    -Mentat Text Two (dicto)
  7. Meager is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/20/2009 12:47pm


     Style: BJJ & MT

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    Quote Originally Posted by selfcritical View Post
    FEDOR GETS HIT LESS THAN MACHIDA. Seriously, read the fightmetric numbers. He moves his head well and rolls off a lot of strikes as well.
    oh come on.

    fightmetric only has four fights up for both.

    they are not between common opponents.

    and most damning, three of the fedor fights listed (both nog fights and the schilt fight) took place almost entirely on the ground with fedor on top. fedor/nog featured 12 strikes total in either clinching or striking range and the schilt fight had 0 at striking and 3 clinching.

    lies, damn lies

    edit: ok, so i didn't know about the career fight report. still, fedor loves to takedown to gnp while lyoto prefers to keep the fight standing for the most part. do you see why a guy who spent the majority of his career as a gnp specialist (and not just any gnp specialist, but the best mma has ever seen) is going to to eat less strikes than a guy that is primarily a striker, no matter how elusive?
    Last edited by Meager; 2/20/2009 12:59pm at .
  8. Diesel_tke is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/20/2009 1:07pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by selfcritical View Post
    Fedor doesn't just get hit lots and defend using his iron chin.


    FEDOR GETS HIT LESS THAN MACHIDA. Seriously, read the fightmetric numbers. He moves his head well and rolls off a lot of strikes as well.

    Fedor is not Nog. He's not consistently weathering beatings in order to get in close. He's avoiding shots more effectively than Anderson fucking Silva.

    Yes, fedor has a very good chin. But it doesn't actually get hit very often. This would be a clue that his chin is not the only thing making his striking work.
    That is a really good point. I was watching a seminar last week by Fedor, and he was talking about this very thing in his stand up instruction.

    He went on an on about how MMA is different from boxing because you don't have these huge gloves to protect your face. He mentioned that since MMA has small gloves, or if you are fighting without gloves, you will want to keep from getting hit all together. Then he spent a while talking about slipping punches, the proper way to do it, and how to use a slip to counter strike.

    It was really interesting and it shows that what you are saying is the method to his madness. If you don't get hit, you don't need to worry about your iron jaw getting tested.
  9. theotherserge is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/20/2009 2:50pm

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     Style: sambo/crossfit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Meager View Post
    edit: ok, so i didn't know about the career fight report. still, fedor loves to takedown to gnp while lyoto prefers to keep the fight standing for the most part. do you see why a guy who spent the majority of his career as a gnp specialist (and not just any gnp specialist, but the best mma has ever seen) is going to to eat less strikes than a guy that is primarily a striker, no matter how elusive?
    So, back to THE POINT OF THE BOOK which is you match the striking style to the type of fighter you are:

    Lyoto prefers to stay standing because his striking style is more effective on his feet. Fedor's striking, while arguably not as dangerous on his feet, is equally effective up or down. So versus an effective striker a takedown makes perfect sense.


    Here's a very nice, traditional hook:


    so^nice, stable, compact, hand@side to protect, beautiful KTFO

    heeereeee's Fedor:




    notice how much head movement there is, left hook=sway to the right, right hook=sway to the left, shoulder comes up at full extension and those last three big hooks he's on his toes and if Sylvia fell backwards then they'd topple over together as Fedor is putting full momentum and bodyweight behind these punches.

    Also note that Timmay is trying to cover up but he doesn't have 16 oz gloves on so it doesn't really work.

    (also, edit: mma-core ftw!)
    Many things we do naturally become difficult only when we try to make them intellectual subjects. It is possible to know so much about a subject that you become totally ignorant.
    -Mentat Text Two (dicto)
  10. bobyclumsyninja is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/20/2009 3:07pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Meager View Post
    no one is saying that russian hooks are completely useless for everyone. some people are saying that they only work for people with jaws of iron and that can already hit like a ton of bricks.
    You're correct in that they're saying that, and they would be wrong. It's a move designed for a stocky build, which does lend it's self to a solid chin, often. That's not the point though. The enabling factor is the build, and the technique, not a compensatory iron chin, and error masking power.

    Anyone who needs a demo, could spar a half-decent sambo player and I'm quite sure they'll eat a few. It lends it's self well to clinch, or/and throw work, it's no surprise that one of the best sambo guys in the world brings it well to mma.

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