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  1. Dochter is offline

    Neutral, or nearly so

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    Posted On:
    1/16/2004 12:01am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by Dochter
    Seems like target choice is the primary determinents of what sort of fist/hand you're going to make are going to be what you're hitting and from what angle. Sometimes hurting your hand is going to be inevitable.

    As for hammerfists not working, that's bullshit. I've been hit by spinning hammerfists thrown lightly and almost been KO'd and I've also seen them done in mt bouts. They certainly do work. A downward hammerfist, seems more like an issue of target choice and power generation through dropping your "center". Your "center" should be in every strike though. The only people teaching fighting from a seat seem to be SCARS and Krav.

    As for choosing standard punches in a "real" fight, that is pretty damn funny since the boxing and mma theme is that you can't do that without gloves either. Seems like your left with no options for hand striking in that case.

    Seems in any case a proper fist, hitting correctly and hitting the proper thing
  2. BlackBeltNow is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/16/2004 2:18am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by Osiris
    "boxers break their hands punching ppl in real life, not TMAers. think about that."

    Whats your point? Thats because punches do major damage to your hands should they be off target or thrown wrong. And one of those is bound to happen in a fight. What do you think the gloves and wrap are for?

    And WTF is up with the story time on this thread? If I wanted to hear goofy ass stories Id go visit a TMA site. They tell them right. BBN's story wasnt bad though.
    my point is real bareknuckled punches break your hand. fake ones are the ones that don't break. tyson once broke his hand in a streetfight doing a one punch KO type hit. i remember this from my preteen years.

    you and others here claim "proper" punches shouldn't break the hand. i say you guys are wrong. a lot of ppl here say they have tried it and didn't hurt their hand. that's b/c they're not doing it hard enough, or the punch itself sucks. if you're doing a hammerfist or chop and youre risking no damage to ur own hand you're not hurting anything.

    u dont' have to believe my stories. theres only one person who knows what is real: me. if you doubt them and i know its true, i know who's desperate accusing the other of BS.


    maverick has the right to say his opinion at least. i respect his, but only to the context of breaking concrete and he himself realizes this. you have NO reason to believe in anything. did you ever break boards? chop anyone? sidekicked the knee sucessfully? N-O.

    And WTF is up with the story time on this thread?
    you keep asking for them that's why!!! you keep saying "source?" "source?" "source?" and i give you "source" "source" "source." did you already forget your own questions??? now that i think about it, i think you're requesting "source" to stall this argument or sth. you were never willing to hear my further explanations--you're just being closeminded or doubtful of enlightening stories.

    you wanna play your source game? where YOUR sources? any sidekick stories? any chop stories? that's right: you have NONE osiris; you get the same "storytime" time everyone has. its just you have no stories of your own

    like i said, ur logic of what works is based on the "observations" ur instructor told you, and what his nstructor told him, etc. falls in the pattern of any BS MA art or school.
  3. BlackBeltNow is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/16/2004 2:53am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by Osiris
    Are you seriously trying to say that its not a real punch unless your hand breaks? How goddamn dumb are you? Your idea seems to be that if your not risking injury to self, than the other person wont be hurt. That BULLSHIT. Ever seen someone break their elbow? Never seen it, never heard about it. Im sure its happened to SOMEONE though. However, what I do hear about and see is succesful elbow strikes.

    no i said RISKING breaking ur hand. tell me why raging boxers break their hand in fights? what are they doing wrong? (btw plz don't atempt to answer it)


    Are you seriously trying to tell me that your goofy ass stories are legitamate sources? How goddamn dumb are you?


    i can't believe you're doubting my stories. i only gave two. how are they incredible? you don't think a hand can be broken from a punch? you don't think leg vining can break hips? look. you are skiny, benching 90lbs. theres a world out there in the athletic worldd "muslces", "strength", etc. i can squat 365x2. my friend can do 385x1 (he's 170 tho, i'm 145). i know i could do my 365, no cheating all the way down thighs parallel to the plane. do you believe my ability? i doubt you do. but i know a lot of ppl here WOULD b/c they lift and work out like they should. they got muscules. you don't. stop being too impressed.

    when you tke folkstyl, you told the whole forum how good it is. when you take BJJ you tell the whole forum how good it is. STFU calm down. i don't know what kinda world you had lived in before u did either grappling style, but neither are THAT impressive.

    if you're that easily impressed, wait till you do MT. you'll have a heart attack.


    You also seem to think that I havent broken boards. You understand that I know TKD, right? Guess what we do as a part of that training.

    As for my not having any stories, I can tell you about some fights Ive been in and various techniques Ive used, but those hold no weight. However, i thing someone breaking bricks and slabs of ice generally tells you that a strike will work. Will there head explode? No. But i dont want to be on the reieving end of that blow. Niether do you. Oh wait, its "traditional" so it must not work. Why dont you voulanteer youre head for some breaking demos? In fact, to PROVE that TMA strikes dont work, you should just walk into a TMA school and let them hit you as you stand there repeating this crap. Make a video and you'll save yourself a lot of time speaking bullshit.
    and that's the story of why osiris believes sidekicks break knees, why sidekicks=backkick, and why osiris knows about the risks of punching too hard.

    In fact, to PROVE that TMA strikes dont work, you should just walk into a TMA school and let them hit you as you stand there repeating this crap.
    i didn't doubt that TMA stikes woudln't work on a guy who is sitting still, putting all his weight on one leg, tensing up all his muscles, did I? I actually said those BS strikes WOULD work in that sort of unralistic situation. i said those BS strikes wont' work in real life.
  4. The Wastrel is offline
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    Such as thou art, sometime was I.

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    Posted On:
    1/16/2004 3:53am

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     Style: Brazilian Jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Boxers get used to having their hands wrapped and gloved.

    BBN,
    There is always a risk of breaking a hand, but the point is to minimize that risk as much as possible.
    Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the **** I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog
  5. BlackBeltNow is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/16/2004 11:24am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by Osiris
    "

    "when you tke folkstyl, you told the whole forum how good it is. when you take BJJ you tell the whole forum how good it is. STFU calm down. i don't know what kinda world you had lived in before u did either grappling style, but neither are THAT impressive."

    I dont see what this has to do with the conversation, but yeh, I advocate the styles that i train in. Thats why I train in them.

    my point was you are easily impressed. do you rreally think my 2 stories are beyond realistic? then why are you doubting them? btw, you do not train MT. once you do, you will bash TKD madder than me (look at how you advocate BJJ and Wr). you advocate wahtever you do. i'm sure even of FS or BJJ sucked, or you did a crap MA, you'd advocate it the same way. you didn't advocate them b/c they work, you advocated them because you do them.
    "and that's the story of why osiris believes sidekicks break knees, why sidekicks=backkick, and why osiris knows about the risks of punching too hard"

    Dude, the sidekicks= backkicks is merely a terminology issue. I make a distinction between various sidekicks including what you call the front leg back kick and the like, but i feel no need to add another name. I just apply the appropriate kick to the right situation. Im more concerned with proper application than discussion as you should be. As for the risks of punching too hard, I know that first hand. Do you really think ive never been in a fight?
    it's not a terminology issue. saying "backkick" to the knee is wrong. spinning sidekick is wrong too b/c it's too slow. its NOT a name. they're 2 different kicks w/ two differnet purposes. i'm not being an asshole. i alwyas thought and knew this. i didn't even think ppl would cosider them being the same, b/c i don't see how they can be the same.

    "didn't doubt that TMA stikes woudln't work on a guy who is sitting still, putting all his weight on one leg, tensing up all his muscles, did I?"

    Umm, whered all the extra bullshit come from?
    what bullshit?
    "i said those BS strikes wont' work in real life."

    So if I were to walk up and land a hammerfist onto the side of your neck you wouldnt feel it? Or maybe if I you approached and I hammerfistd you in the temple and followed through with and uppercut and knee strikes. Wouldnt work? What about if we were talking face to face and I all of a sudden kicked your knee out. Youd shrug it off? Bullshit.
    of ocurse taht will work. read the quote you quoted me above: "I didn't doubt that TMA stikes woudln't work on a guy who is sitting still, putting all his weight on one leg, tensing up all his muscles, did I?"
    a shove can be a self defense move if you come here and sit still for me to "prove you wrong" a bitch slap can be considered lethal depending on the context. but if the context is "real life scenario fighting" then these won't work.

    1) for example: spinnng hammerfist. every move has a high and low side. if he blocks, and above the elbow hits the block, ur arm will be hyperextended. but if you land it sucessfully, would it hurt? i don't think so. that's why a spinning backfist is prefered: same risk, but better reward.

    2) if you wanna better reward, you have to take risks. if you practice moves and you're not risking injury when that move is done in a ungloved situation, it means you're not doing risk taking--there is no legit "100% safe" strke. (and note i'm not implying the riskier the more dangerous, i'm just saying if something is "100% safe" it wont' hurt). even a roundkick can **** yourself up if you kick the elbow, a freak accident chance, and you have to learn this to use it.

    walking around praising "hammerfist will never break my hand" does not know what they're talking about. anyone who said this to me probably doesn't even know how to use the strike any more than me. same with sidekicks to the knee. (i knwo this is subjective, but look at what we've talked about--when it'll work and when it won't. it should be obvoius this move will more liikely to fail than to not in the order of 99.99% fail rate)
    Last edited by BlackBeltNow; 1/16/2004 11:27am at .
  6. BlackBeltNow is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/16/2004 11:33am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by The Wastrel
    Boxers get used to having their hands wrapped and gloved.

    BBN,
    There is always a risk of breaking a hand, but the point is to minimize that risk as much as possible.
    i agree. but the risk is there and never ZERO. if something was a 100% safe punch--referring to ppl saying "i doubt chops/hammers can ever hurt myself. i've broken bricks w/ them and i'm confident they won't break my hand"-- the punch they're doing must be beyond weak. why would it be weak?

    maybe b/c the guy was taught to punch excessively softer than it should be, or the punch itself is not a good one. or maybe they emphasize about not breaking their hand or "doing it properly," or just worry about breaking boards, sooooo much, they forget the original purpose of the punch: to hurt someone. i havent' forgotten--real punches risk breaking

    that was my point of the risk factor. does i clarify it better?
  7. JKDChick is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/22/2004 7:36pm

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     Style: JKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Last one, thankfully.
    Monkey Ninjas! Attack!
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