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  1. Kintanon is offline
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    Yes, I am smarter than you are.

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    Posted On:
    2/07/2009 12:31pm

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     Style: TKD, BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Narcolepsy is uncontrollable. The ability to fall asleep quickly is a learned skill.
  2. TheRuss is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/07/2009 12:32pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kintanon
    Narcolepsy is uncontrollable. The ability to fall asleep quickly is a learned skill.
    Like at the wheel?

    Edit: And it's not just the rapidity of falling asleep. Rapid onset of REM is another symptom.

    Scientists now believe that narcolepsy results from disease processes affecting brain mechanisms that regulate REM sleep. For normal sleepers a typical sleep cycle is about 100 - 110 minutes long, beginning with NREM sleep and transitioning to REM sleep after 80 - 100 minutes. But, people with narcolepsy frequently enter REM sleep within a few minutes of falling asleep.
    -NIH
    Last edited by TheRuss; 2/07/2009 12:35pm at .
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
    Downstreet on the flip-flop, timepants.
  3. Kintanon is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/07/2009 12:33pm

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    Well no, but it's not uncommon for people coming off of 12-14 hour work shifts to fall asleep at the wheel without it being narcolepsy. Read the WHOLE post before you jump to mental disorders as the cause....
    The guy said he was working 14s and stuff, it happens.
  4. TheRuss is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/07/2009 12:35pm

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    See my edit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
    Downstreet on the flip-flop, timepants.
  5. elipson is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/07/2009 2:42pm

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    You think maybe the soft alarm has conditioned him to fall asleep when it sounds?

    We could have some fun with that if he ever shows up to a throwdown.
  6. meataxe is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/07/2009 8:47pm


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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRuss
    Statistical analysis has systematic limitations, and the primary one is that correlation does not imply causality. In this case, I'd be shocked if the correlation didn't actually exist, but to make statements about causality, we'll need more than Excel.

    Step 1 (easy): Demonstrate a cause-effect relationship between various sleep patterns and melatonin levels (controlling for everything else). See the link to the growth hormone lab for an example on how to do this.

    Step 2 (hard): Demonstrate a cause-effect relationship between melatonin levels and cancer (controlling for everything else). You can probably do this one with mice, but with humans it'd be expensive and unethical.

    Alternatively, one could establish a correlation between polyphasic sleep and cancer directly, and given that we know cancer doesn't cause people to start trying to do polyphasic sleep, we can make a statement about the probable direction of causality.

    This is where Excel comes in, because we'd need to do regression analysis to control for as many other variables as possible. If correlation between two *other* variables is strong enough (say, being acutely interested in health and trying out polyphasic sleep - is there anyone who's in the latter group but not the former?), it's infeasible to narrow the correlation to one of the two variables.
    This is an area that could use more research. There have been studies, but I don't think it would be considered conclusive.

    I believe #1 is pretty much covered. There has been plenty of research on the sleep, melatonin levels and exposure to light. I don't imagine many people have looked into polyphasic sleep as it is not really a pressing healthcare issue.

    Topic #2 is where there would need to be more research. I believe the study I heard about was epidemiological. Also, I think there are some woo-woo types that believe that popping melatonin tablets will help prevent cancer (not sure of the details on this one). This may actually be true, but the hippies might scare serious researchers away from a possibly worthy topic.
    Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices.
    - Voltaire
  7. Jhemsley is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/07/2009 10:41pm


     Style: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sleep is critical to both the regulation of the endocrine and nervous system. Wihout a COMPELLING reason to be polyphasic, its an incrediblely bad idea to become polyphasic. Making such a drastic change based on ancedotal evidence that 'I'm more rested and alert' while ignoring ancedotal evidence like having a hard time making a 30 - 45 minute boring drive without falling asleep strikes me as as extraordinarilly foolish risk to take with your own health and someone else's in order to be a little different.

    The risk reward balance here is completely unbalanced. Nothing substantial is out there to be gained. Quite a lot is at risk.
  8. TheRuss is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/07/2009 11:12pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by meataxe
    This is an area that could use more research. There have been studies, but I don't think it would be considered conclusive.
    Well, there are enough other reasons to keep your sleep schedule healthy that it's not really a pressing issue for me personally (although I guess there are lots of people trying to get by on <6 hours).

    I suppose the lack of research is one reason I'm deeply skeptical about the polyphasic sleep thing, too. One general study on the subject would go a long way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
    Downstreet on the flip-flop, timepants.
  9. jspeedy is online now
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    Posted On:
    2/07/2009 11:24pm


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    Quote:ThRuss:
    I suppose the lack of research is one reason I'm deeply skeptical about the polyphasic sleep thing, too. One general study on the subject would go a long way.

    True dat!


    From some of the things i've read that were way over my head (Discover magazine) scientists don't even completely understand why humans need to sleep. I think the general point of the article is the human body works like a machine and as long as there's fuel the machine can keep going. The problem is the brain can't function w/o rest but why? It's just another machine. I have no F*ing clue why personally, the article was really involved and made sense at the time. I'm not even gonna start with the philisophical/spiritualistic stuff i've read, it's interesting but can't really be backed up.
  10. Kintanon is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/09/2009 8:49am

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jhemsley
    Sleep is critical to both the regulation of the endocrine and nervous system. Wihout a COMPELLING reason to be polyphasic, its an incrediblely bad idea to become polyphasic. Making such a drastic change based on ancedotal evidence that 'I'm more rested and alert' while ignoring ancedotal evidence like having a hard time making a 30 - 45 minute boring drive without falling asleep strikes me as as extraordinarilly foolish risk to take with your own health and someone else's in order to be a little different.

    The risk reward balance here is completely unbalanced. Nothing substantial is out there to be gained. Quite a lot is at risk.
    Having a hard time making a 30-45 minute drive is only during the first 2-3 week adjustment period. After that it's not a problem.

    Update to my polyphasic stuff though, I worked out really hard friday night and slept through my alarms for about 6 hours which threw a monkey wrench in my sleep schedule. So I'm having to re-establish it today. It wasn't enough to completely reset me, but it made for a weird weekend. Next nap is at 11:30am.
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