Thread: Kinokawa Aikido
2/04/2009 7:22am, #11
- Join Date
- Nov 2005
- Improv comedy
I don't want to derail your thread into a discussion of "Aliveness" but just so you know it's not an issue of protective gear or roughness, you can be geared up and still be alive and still be rough and dead as far as training goes.
For exapmple these guys with theri Aiki-boxing are more alive than most Aikido clips
YouTube - Aiki-Boxing 3
Even though they might look sloppy as far as the Aikido technique goes and only one is applying Atemi they are still keeping enough intention, intensity, randomness and resistance to their training to be considered alive.
As far as the grappling rating Bullshido is pretty grappling snobish but for good reasons for an 8 I would expect your grappling to deal with take downs, control and submissions against 100% resistant partners, not just an Uke throwing a strike with intention, and intensity. So that even when it hits the ground the Uke is still resisting.
So basically sometimes in Randori the Uke wins, and it might be the uke who gets the armbar or sub or finishing throw.
If your randori always has a predetermined winner and your training focuses on this - whihc the Uke / tori relationship does, it's hard to say its alive and to give it an 8 rating.
Just so you know I come from a Yoshinkai background and I know Aiki training can be hard, intense and rough, but unfortunately still miss on the Aliveness and effectiveness for grappling scale. The roots of this problem go right to the heart of Aikido
There have been a few schools and styles that try to find ways to overcome this and still keep the Aiki-flavor, its just very hard to do.
2/08/2009 1:13am, #12
Time to chime in.....
The two vids posted by DCS are no more than a 2-3 for aliveness, here is why...
:22 – why isn’t the instructor taken down?
:30 – the guy w/o the hakama grabs the instructor and stands there for almost 4 seconds waiting for the instructor to do something. This happens repeatedly throughout the vid. People grab him or reach for him and just wait for him to do something.
:48 – the guy w/o the hakama grabs the instructor and lethargically walks around holding him until he is “thrown” at .54.
Throughout the entire video it seems like the instructor is being attacked by zombies, i.e., a bunch of guys charging at the instructor with their arms out.
Just like in the movies he is attacked by 5 guys who attack one at a time. There is absolutely no resistance after the initial half-hearted attack attempt.
Both are compliant drills or demonstrations; which is a 2-3 for aliveness.
The vid posted by Goju-Joe is actually tough to rate and I would give greater leeway to the Aliveness rating. It could arguably fall anywhere from 4-7.
The reason why it looks "sloppy" is simply because the attacker is actually attacking, counter attacking, and resisting. The guy being hit is trying to utilize his aikido, presumably, to defend and repel the attack. The guy attacking does not flop down and practice his ukemi at the slightest touch or push like the guys in the other vids. There is resistance and an intent to actually attack the opponent.
Unless you can post vid showing someone actually resisting a throw rather than charging in with there arms held out and then rolling out at the slightest touch I'm nuking your Aliveness rating.
I'm also nuking your grappling rating, here's why...
8-9: Pressure-tested, full range grappling and proven success in limited restriction, top level competitions or high level self defense situations.
4-5: Limited single sub-range (standing, clinch, ground only).
Remember, this is not a dis, attack, or slight to aikido or to your aikido school. It is simply a realistic rating based upon the vids provided. For example, as stated in the "READ THIS" stickie...
Remember, a low number rating is simply a classification of the curriculum taught, NOT a derogatory statement about your school.
Last edited by GoldenJonas; 2/08/2009 1:16am at .
3/26/2009 11:11pm, #13
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
Guess there won't be any liitle asian girls with miniskirts here. I wanted to be a compliant partner turned non compliant and then chew their pink pussies up. Maybe some of the weaker Aikido schools will have some of them. HEH HEH HEH!!!
4/08/2009 6:32am, #14
- Join Date
- May 2008
- Midlands, England
my only comment is 5 is not a bad rating for traditional martial arts schools. Why do all of the reviewers never read the reviewing criteria?