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  1. Silvan is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/03/2009 1:24pm


     Style: The Gentle Way

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Judo rules shake up

    Firstly, RIP Helio.

    Now to business. I haven't seen a thread on this so here we go.

    The two Judo coaches at our club attended a coaching seminar on Sunday and have just forwarded on the info to us. The seminar was addressing some radical changes in Judo competition rules that will have a big effect on training and tactics.
    The changes are worldwide and not just restricted to the BJA, they are apparantly intended to discourage the stategy of low scoring high defensive Judo which is becoming more and more common in high level competition.

    Though there are numerous changes my memory is pretty sketchy and this is all 2nd hand information. If any other Judoka who are more "in the know" can add then please do so.

    The two biggest changes I know about are:

    1: Koka is being removed.

    Probably the biggest and most controvesial change in Judo competition since the introduction of the blue gi 10 years ago, the lowest scoring point "Koka" is being taken out entirely. Yuko is now the minimal score possible. I'm not sure if this will affect pins, but i'm almost sure it will.
    No more quick leg trips or Ko-uchi's to rack up some easy points then play defensive, they won't count. This also leads to the next big change:

    2: Jigotai will now result in a Shido.

    Assuming the ultra-defensive stance of Jigotai will now get you a penalty. Many clubs already frown upon Jigotai playstyles and encourage stand up traditional Judo, but now this will be a requirement. If a player deliberately tucks their head in and back up their legs then they will be penalized for negative Judo.
    Although a defensive stance is still acceptable, deliberately going to deep jigotai is not anymore.

    These changes are obviously trying to promote the classical high risk Ippon Judo and do away with the Koka/Shido tactics that plagued the last Olympics.

    Any thoughts? Is this a good thing for the spirit of Judo, or just more rule changes to make the sport more spectator friendly?

    Apologies if this thread has already come up, I couldn't find anything on it.
  2. Just Guess is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/03/2009 2:08pm


     Style: ukemi & tapping out

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The rule changes and how they will be interpreted in the US can be found here: http://judoinfo.com/pdf/JudoRules-2009.pdf

    I like some of the rule changes, but don't like some of the others. I'm glad to see koka gone, but hope this doesn't lead to a lowering of standards for scoring yuko. If all goes according to plan the quality of throwing attempts should go up. I don't really like the penalization for just grabbing the pant leg or actually using a purposefully failed throw to enter into newaza. They both seem like valid tactics to me.

    It seems like some of these rule changes are attempts to fix the symptoms, not the actual problem. The whole idea that Judo should be viewer friendly seems flawed to me, and Judo would be better off going back to older rule sets that allow for more time to actually work for good throws and newaza.
  3. TheRuss is offline
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    is badder than you

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    Posted On:
    2/03/2009 2:13pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: None

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Just Guess
    I don't really like the penalization for just grabbing the pant leg
    *reviews competition footage*

    Preach it, brother.
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
    Downstreet on the flip-flop, timepants.
  4. 1point2 is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/03/2009 2:23pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 剛 and 柔

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Judo going Professional - No BS Martial Arts

    No pants grabbing during tachiwaza, no koka, more time for newaza. Sounds like better judo to me. No jigotai...sounds like they're attempting to corral cats into a certain style of judo, which is doomed from the start.
  5. ChickenBeakFist is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/03/2009 2:28pm


     Style: Hillbilly Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I was at the Winter Nationals in December and these new rules were the buzz. But other than the elimination of the koka everything went along fairly normally. Once things were under way I don't think anyone really noticed them.

    And shame on you pants grabbers! Perform your ankle-picks the way the Samurai intended! By cupping the back of the ankle! :biblethum
  6. JohnnyCache is offline
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    All Out of Bubblegum

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    Posted On:
    2/03/2009 2:37pm

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I don't know about banning jigotai entirely - I think maybe if you do it to the point of stalling, it should be penelized as stalling, just like backing up or avoiding grips - but - what needs to go is the tuck-head-grab-collar-legs-out turtle on the ground. As long as you're rewarded for giving up back mount, there's a problem in judo.

    I like the loss of koka. I want to do judo, not an eskimo shin-kicking contest.
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
  7. Just Guess is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/03/2009 2:48pm


     Style: ukemi & tapping out

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyCache
    what needs to go is the tuck-head-grab-collar-legs-out turtle on the ground. As long as you're rewarded for giving up back mount, there's a problem in judo.
    So true, even if I am guilty of doing it from time to time.
  8. FictionPimp is offline

    Sexiest Punching Bag Alive

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    Posted On:
    2/03/2009 2:53pm


     Style: BJJ/Judo/Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm starting to dislike judo more and more every year. I wish someone would take the best of submission grappling rules and the best parts of judo and create some kind of gi based grappling with a focus on throwing that also allows submissions (chokes and armbars) with a reasonable amount of time on the ground.

    I like the loss of the koka, but it seems to me that all the want to do is penalize people for trying to work their strong points and use tactics that are not from the 18th century. This trend will eventually make judo useless as a martial art.
    "a martial art that has no rules is nothing but violence" - Kenji Tomiki
  9. WhiteShark is offline
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    1% Shark is better than you.

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    Posted On:
    2/03/2009 3:03pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Doesn't NAGA gi rules already do what Fiction Pimp just said. Throws only count if you land in a dominate position. Subs are encouraged and you can even do some leg locks that Strict BJJ forbids.
  10. 1point2 is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/03/2009 3:11pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 剛 and 柔

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Just Guess
    So true, even if I am guilty of doing it from time to time.
    I'm both happy (at my within-the-rules improvement) and sad (at my training-to-the-test) about my improved turtling and chest-diving out of falls in my second judo tournament (see my competition footage).

    SAMBO does a good job of focusing on throws while keeping groundwork. Their point system incorporates submission, throws to neutral positions, throws to dominant positions, and perfect throws (where I remain standing). The SAMBO ruleset is really ideal for a lot of things.
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