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  1. Ming Loyalist is offline
    Ming Loyalist's Avatar

    solves problems with violence

    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    4,237

    Posted On:
    2/11/2009 9:18am

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, Hung Family Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PimpDawg
    I think that rule changes to please the spectators have had an impact. Getting stood up and multiple rounds inherently favor strikers. If fighters didn't get stood up for lack of "action", you would see many more submissions. Same if instead of rounds we would have just a single 15 or 25 minute uninterrupted battle.

    The extreme example of this would be Gracie vs Servern in UFC 4. After 15 mintures Gracie caught Severn in a triangle. Who knows what would have happened if they had been stood up multiple times or had been interrupted by multiple rounds.

    I don't advocate going back to the dark days of groin strikes and no gloves, but I think they should get rid of rounds and give more leniancy to grapplers taking longer to work their subs.

    Also, they should fight on hard concrete. Ok, maybe not.
    when you put "action" in quotes, you are being sarcastic i assume, and are saying that the refs stand up fights where an attempt is being made to either improve position, actively seek a submission, or land effective strikes.

    i almost never see standups in these circumstances. the refs know to look for these things.

    when i DO see standups (and i'm very glad there ARE standups in these cases) are when someone (usually a wrestler) takes someone down and pins them, NOT seeking to improve position, submit, or land effective strikes.

    in such a case, do you REALLY want to watch them pin someone for 15 minutes? it's boring and is against the principles of the sport. if douchebags like that didn't exist, there would be no need for standups. unfortunately they do exist.

    so.... standups are needed. as for rounds, that's a more complex issue, but between 2 equally skilled fighters, the rounds make it a better test of overall skill, sort of like having a best of 3 scenario (it's pretty rare to get lucky 2 out of 3 times.)
    "Face punches are an essential character building part of a martial art. You don't truly love your children unless you allow them to get punched in the face." - chi-conspiricy
    "When I was a little boy, I had a sailor suit, but it didn't mean I was in the Navy." - Mtripp on the subject of a 5 year old karate black belt
    "Without actual qualifications to be a Zen teacher, your instructor is just another roundeye raping Asian culture for a buck." - Errant108
    "Seriously, who gives a **** what you or Errant think? You're Asian males, everyone just ignores you, unless you're in a krotty movie." - new2bjj
  2. slideyfoot is offline
    slideyfoot's Avatar

    Artemis BJJ Co-Founder/Instructor

    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Bristol, UK
    Posts
    2,488

    Posted On:
    2/11/2009 10:06am

    Business Class Supporting Membersupporting member
     Artemis BJJ | Brazilian Jiu Jitsu in Bristol Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by UpaLumpa
    Out of curiosity, I tallied up Subs, KO/TKOs and Decisions in the UFC since the start of 2007.
    KO/TKO:147 (38.8%)
    Sub: 100 (26.4%)
    Dec.:132 (34.8%)

    It is worth noting that injuries (e.g. Corey Hill's stubbed toe) are included under tko. There were maybe 10 of those, making decisions and ko/tko's pretty equal. The handful of sub by strikes were put into the KO/TKO category.
    Always worth looking at the facts: Caleb did something similar back in 2007, which you might find interesting if you haven't seen the post before.


    Don't know if this will paste right:
    event date ko sub dec
    94 1/31/2009 2 0 8
    93 1/17/2009 6 1 3
    92 12/27/2008 8 0 2
    I normally stick spreadsheets straight up on Google Docs so the formatting works properly. Although plenty of people are too lazy to click links, so shame there isn't a table option in the BBcode on here (unless I missed it?).
  3. Urban Achiever is offline
    Urban Achiever's Avatar

    Lightweight

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    313

    Posted On:
    2/11/2009 6:19pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Very interesting for me that this thread is in existance now. I just watched UFC unleashed on Spike TV last weekend and watched, in 2 different matches, the fighters were stood up a couple of times because the grappler stalled in guard. Eventually the striker won in KO. I assume this is something new? I remember UFC 1 and UFC 2 where the ground game went on forever. I do see why the general populus would prefer KOs and smackdowns over 20 minute chess matches on the ground, however scientific it may be.
    Last edited by Urban Achiever; 2/11/2009 6:20pm at . Reason: grammar.
  4. PimpDawg is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    273

    Posted On:
    2/11/2009 9:34pm


     Style: BJJ, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sirus
    Very interesting for me that this thread is in existance now. I just watched UFC unleashed on Spike TV last weekend and watched, in 2 different matches, the fighters were stood up a couple of times because the grappler stalled in guard. Eventually the striker won in KO. I assume this is something new? I remember UFC 1 and UFC 2 where the ground game went on forever. I do see why the general populus would prefer KOs and smackdowns over 20 minute chess matches on the ground, however scientific it may be.
    Quite true, although someone made a good point about soccer kicks to the head and knees while someone is on the ground. That would definetely favor strikers. It would be interesting to compare UFC stats vs Pride stats. Although I don't think that Pride allowed elbows to the head, so it might have inherently favored grapplers. BTW, I'm not pride fanboy - I hated the ropes.

    My perfect organization would have no rounds, no standups, and a uniform resembling street clothes. Like sambo kurtkas with short sleeves. I would leave out soccer kicks and stomps to the head of a down oponent because that's just wrong. I'm not sure what I would do with Royce-style heels to the kidneys. I wouldn't want fightesr to pee red for no good reason. That just seems like uneccessary punishment to me with no gain in advantage for the person kicking.

    Also, I'd make the whole cage sway back and forth, held up by a rope. Lava would have to come into play somehow.
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