Paul Cave - martial arts / MMA instructor?

[psykro]

What I find interesting is the change in Paul Cave's ranking on their sites home page. At the top he is credited as 5th Dan Goju, 7th Dan WAKO/ISAKA and at the bottom of the site he is credited as 6th Dan (no style mentioned). Weird one....

[hondathan]

I have met Gary and James at a few competitions and they are both sound guys, I am sure you will enjoy training with them.


hondathan - an insinuation that I somehow wasn't brought up to be respectful? Well, with respect, you can go **** yourself :)

it wasnt an insinuation,but now i see it was actually a fact.........nice way to talk to a fellow forum user...........

[loop35]

Hi all,

I found this thread because I train with one of Paul cave's dojos, and although being a member, dare I say it: I too found him fishy.

Now before coming to Paul Cave's I was not exposed to any form of MA, but since the dojo was very close to my home I decided to join because it was something I want to do and still is.

Now the experience for me, especially being a newbie was and is still good but I have high doubts that what we are learning are serious techniques as it is advertised. The instructors at my dojo are good as far as I can tell and the techniques I have learned so far feel legitimate and the environment is a good one, the instructors are invested and show solid a fighting style but as far as the different techniques go, we are never told, this is an Aikido move or this is Jui Justi and although I am a newbie, I would to think that I am someone with a good intuition so I could kind of tell that something is a miss.

And as one previous poster said that it looked like generic kickboxing stuff to him, that’s what it feels like to me, I don’t feel like im learning or growing in a well developed technique but learning a basic, kickboxing stuff with one or two moves from other disciplines thrown in.

This is not necessarily bad thing but it leads me to the reasons why I found Paul Caves and NMA fishy.

*The website is called kickboxing.co.za
This seems like blatant marketing rather than a respectable art form.

* When you join you have to sign a full years contract, they know many people will drop out but you have to keep paying.

*They encourage debit orders for this [previous point]

* They encourage you to buy all the gear through the dojo.
I bought a pair of gloves through the dojo, which cost more and was of a lower standard of quality than something I could’ve purchased from a retail store.

*The GI, t-shirt and tracksuit pants is overpriced.
This seems more a revenue builder then genuine interest in learners.

* The whole thing is to flashy.

* I have never seen Paul Cave fight
Until recently, He came in and spared with a fellow instructor in front of the whole class while we were stretching, then instructor came at him. and he held out his arms saying stop, and then he did some weird fast things with is arms that didn’t look like fighting just a flashy show of dominance.

*He doesn’t host a class, he just pops into each dojo for a few minutes during lessons.

*He drives one of those huge American imported trucks with the license plate that says Shihaan and on is other truck it says Sensei.

I found this distasteful and out of order for someone who is supposed to have that much training.

*When I was reading through his credentials even as a newbie I thought wow, There are no details you can follow up on and it looks too impressive eg. "International Degree Goju Kai (Japan Graded)" Shouldn’t the name of the Dojo or teacher be present and not just Japan?

* He is a slick talker.
At the last event he hosted it and was making jokes and chatting all the way through, I was shocked when I realised it was him.

*He proves himself all the time.
I don’t know if you guys know what I mean when I say this, but it is someone who uses every possible opportunity to get ahead of you in conversation, body language demonstrations of power etc. Like at one training we had not done finishing our stretches at the end when he said to the instructor “come”, and then he dismissed us, It looked like such a clear show of power and I still don’t understand it because we weren’t even done stretching yet.

*If you go our the competition even if you are a member you have to pay.
I don’t know if this is standard practice but the price was high, that you could tell they are trying too make money not just cover cost.

*If you win a trophy, you have to pay for it. lol that feels weird to me.

*The cost per competing in an event is expensive.

* You cant find any information about him on the internet.
Nothing! besides this site and his own website.

*I have been there for a good few months and we have never been introduced to knife fighting and one or two lessons kali, although it is advertised well.

Generally there are a lot of things a just find fishy when you see him, I would expect someone who has trained as much as he as to be a much more peaceful self-assured and wise person.

This being said, Although I do not think that the Paul Cave's thing is all its advertised to be or that he has the qualifications, The instructors are, good, and if you are looking to keep fit and learn kickboxing its a good place to go, They teach the basics very well, good fighting stance, posture, respect for your opponent etc.

The fees per month are also very cheap although everything else isn’t. and I would still recommend going there, but don’t get your hopes up. Because the advertising and claims are over-exaggerated and or false.

[roostercpt]

Hey LOOP35.

I myself have joined Gracie Jui Jitsu Cape Town. What a fantastic academy. Both Gary and James are qualified BJJ instructors and have no quibble in referring you to various references including the Gracie Academy itself. They also have all the relevant certificates to prove their authenticity. I took them up on their offer to validate their BJJ claims and was very impressed by their credentials. I have found the academy to be very friendly (both the instuctors and fellow students), with one very common goal. We also have a very good code of conduct, my favourite being "leave your ego at the door". You are made to feel welcome (and not intimidated) the minute you step inside.Feel free to give them a call

[kickassfighter]

Hey Guys

I'm new to this, but I have done some research on the whole NMA Paul Cave scene. I think some of you miss a very important point here. You are all looking at face value. Obviously that is exactly that, face value. Go read up on the website. You will find some credentials there. But the NMA is a much bigger picture than any of you are aware of. Paul Caves NMA is the largest organisation in SA. With 74 affiliated clubs all over SA they specialise in Kickboxing and MMA. Hence Kickboxing.co.za. The other styles they offer are based on a "self defense", "mixed martial arts" perspective. Thus preparing you for a complete range of fighting. All this knowledge seems to have stemed from mr Cave travelling accross the glode doing seminars and specialised training sessions with different people.
The NMA is also the ISKA franchise in SA. Which means the ISKA world Champs which includes Pride, traditional, Muay Thai, even Capoeira is all directly portrayed by DESTINY, the SA Champs. Mr Cave and his partner Phil Anderson has pioneered DESTINY and the ISKA South African Championships in such a way that anyone from various styles can enter as long as you stick to the ISKA rules. The offer a hybrid form of sport grappling which covers stand up striking (limited) as well as ground work. As much as I hate to admit, mr Caves JJ students excel in this. They are awesome. I heard they even beat some of the pure JJ competitors. (hearsay)
Anyway, alot can be said by various instructors. What does the car you drive have to do with your abilities? Just a thought? But what does matter is that mr Cave has the biggest and fastest growing organisation in SA. And they are hugely successful. Has any of you looked at the breaking? They have some instructors achieving incredible results for breaking on international level. They are good!!! But I suppose you would want to know who taught them breaking? And what belt they hold in it??
Come on guys, we are all MA's in our own right. Yes a lineage is important, but if it is so important, get off your ass and go to the class. I hear they offer a free demonstration class, no obligation.

[It is Fake]

Hey Guys

I'm new to this, but I have done some research on the whole NMA Paul Cave scene. I think some of you miss a very important point here.

Hold on so we get on the same page:

but having watched Royce Gracie in the early UFCs I was especially interested in "Specialised Tuition in Brazilian/Russian Jiu Jitsu".

Okay did you get that?



You missed the point but, that happens some time.

You are all looking at face value.

Yes.

If I want a HDTV I do not look at Analog, no matter how it is dressed up.


BeachCarl wanted BJJ. One set of instructors has proven their lineage. One set of instructors responded arrogantly IMO.

Obviously that is exactly that, face value.

Addressed above.

Go read up on the website. You will find some credentials there.

I read the website, mo BJJ lineage or credentials which, is the central issue of this thread.

But the NMA is a much bigger picture than any of you are aware of. Paul Caves NMA is the largest organisation in SA. With 74 affiliated clubs all over SA they specialise in Kickboxing and MMA. Hence Kickboxing.co.za.

The missing response to the BJJ question, you know the topic of this thread, is duly noted.

The other styles they offer are based on a "self defense", "mixed martial arts" perspective. Thus preparing you for a complete range of fighting. All this knowledge seems to have stemed from mr Cave travelling accross the glode doing seminars and specialised training sessions with different people.

He traveled the world? That's cool I haven't left the US in decades. Still, it has nothing to do with credentials in BJJ.

The NMA is also the ISKA franchise in SA. Which means the ISKA world Champs which includes Pride, traditional, Muay Thai, even Capoeira is all directly portrayed by DESTINY, the SA Champs. Mr Cave and his partner Phil Anderson has pioneered DESTINY and the ISKA South African Championships in such a way that anyone from various styles can enter as long as you stick to the ISKA rules. The offer a hybrid form of sport grappling which covers stand up striking (limited) as well as ground work. As much as I hate to admit, mr Caves JJ students excel in this.

That's great and I wish his organization well. I did notice you dropped the "B" when you mentioned JJ.

They are awesome. I heard they even beat some of the pure JJ competitors. (hearsay)

:(

Anyway, alot can be said by various instructors. What does the car you drive have to do with your abilities? Just a thought? But what does matter is that mr Cave has the biggest and fastest growing organisation in SA. And they are hugely successful. Has any of you looked at the breaking? They have some instructors achieving incredible results for breaking on international level. They are good!!! But I suppose you would want to know who taught them breaking? And what belt they hold in it??

All of this is irrelevant. A-L-L O-F I-T

Come on guys, we are all MA's in our own right. Yes a lineage is important, but if it is so important, get off your ass and go to the class. I hear they offer a free demonstration class, no obligation.

Why? If I want to buy a car, why do I need to test drive a truck. I know what I want, why waste my time?


BeachCarl wanted to learn BJJ.
Paul Cave (or an Associate) refused to provide lineage.
BeachCarl found legit BJJ.
Paul Cave (or an Associate) lost a student.

The End.

[hondathan]

if bjj is all you interested in then just do that...,at the gracie gym..but if you keen to learn other styles ie.akido,khali,muy tai,hapkido,kickboxing,knife,and bjj also,then you can come to the nma accademy for only R160 a month and learn it all...nuff said ,end of story.kthxbye

[It is Fake]

if bjj is all you interested in then just do that...,at the gracie gym..but if you keen to learn other styles ie.akido,khali,muy tai,hapkido,kickboxing,knife,and bjj also,then you can come to the nma accademy for only R160 a month and learn it all...nuff said ,end of story.kthxbye

Sell Sell Sell Sell.

[kickassfighter]

It is fake. I think you are fake. Cant wait to meet you at a tournament. But then again you probably never leave the house. Pop in at Orlando in July. I'll see you at the ISKA World Champs.

[hondathan]

Sell Sell Sell Sell.

i honestly couldnt care less who joins and who doesnt!!!im not making any money....as long as i keep on enjoying my training,im happy....