Pity you interpret this as a hidden agenda, for it's not. I'm an investor in your business. I don't need homework in anybody's "reputation" nor experience, if you advertise, it must be legit. Point. I do have respect for any fellow human being, but as adult will not as an active student or instructors(adults!!) be sucked into the "cavalcade" awaiting the Shihan's arrival on the parking lot nor the door. If that's how the "kingdoms" run, so be it. I too (as a lot of members and non members) need the doubt cleared, for I pay to have my kid blast the business in advertising on his person. Appologies for communicating on this forum, It's a comfort zone to avoid the wellknown PC's politics. (Ps. Do not doubt my respect for you as person, and the way you communicate, let Cave speak for himself)
Turning 43 on 9 January 2012, started training Karate in January 1973 = almost 39 years. Been teaching martial arts since finishing military service in 1988 = 23 years.
Yes, and thanks for playing the semantics game that started this entire thread. You are 42. If we were in November I'd give you a break. You are claiming years, as an appeal to authority, when you weren't even a Black Belt let alone old enough to know good, bad, or mediocre Martial arts.
Originally Posted by Phil Anderson
No, if you start at three that is fine, but you used it as an appeal to authority.
I get your point. I'm trying to get you to understand that there are lots of people including me that have literally dedicated their entire (almost) lives to the martial arts. I graded for Black belt (junior) in 1979, that means i've held that grade for 32 years. I have taught children, adults, disabled and blind & deaf peolpe in my 23 years as full time instructor and guess what? The fastest learners and purist martial artists are the children because there is no EGO or ARROGANCE let alone TESTOSTERONE ATTITUDE found in adults, especially men. So please don't create a idea that small childrens years mean nothing while learning the arts.For the record what style do you do (or styles) and how many years of teaching and training have you done ?
I have the utmost respect for your experience and dedication and do not doubt it for 1 minute. I'm grateful for the exellent foundation lied with the kids. The original question was HOW WAS THE TITLE SHIHAN ALLOCATED AND CAN IT BE PROVEN WITH CERTIFICATION. I will not use this platform to degrade you as you are using terms like arrogance and attitude, we are missing the point, and on your question on style, I'm a parent with no EXPERIENCE, Please give us a straight answer on the forum question, or does the experience and years automatically justify a selfallocated title? I rest my case and wish you all the best with the hard work and a great (although commercialized) club. regards
Just because I know, everyone should know
Why do I need to understand this? It has no bearing on how the Paul Cave website is worded. That's like me telling you to stop posting because in 82 I was a martial artist as well. It has nothing to do with someone investigating the claims on the website! This is why it is an appeal to authority. You are saying "look, I have a Black Belt for 32 years how dare you question me and mine." People questions kings, queens, and presidents. You, your Black belt, and your 39 years experience can be questioned as well.
Originally Posted by by Phil Anderson[/quote
Everyone has ego. You have it as well.
The fastest learners and purist martial artists are the children because there is no EGO
Wow you are full of strawmen and Red herrings today.
or ARROGANCE let alone TESTOSTERONE ATTITUDE found in adults, especially men.
Did I say they mean nothing? NOPE. I said YOUR CLAIM OF 39 YEARS IS A SEMANTIC APPEAL TO AUTHORITY. There is that testosterone, arrogance and ego in your words you are talking about. Trying to make your appeal stronger by counting experience at three years old. Welcome to Bullshido where only a few arts with Junior Black Belts are respected. Oh and kids have all of that as well. Just like adults, it is in varying degrees. All children are not the same and nor do they all learn the same.
So please don't create a idea that small childrens years mean nothing while learning the arts.
Already discussed in another thread and not relevant to Paul's website or your current defense of said person.. This thread is about Paul Cave and his claims. Oh and his lack of credentials in certain arts. Oh and the people, from your art that have multiple accounts posting in this thread. You want to defend him post his credentials and quit talking about yourself.
For the record what style do you do (or styles) and how many years of teaching and training have you done ?
No one is missing the point. Someone asked about his BJJ credentials and they were not provided. That person found a legit BJJ school, with credentials, and didn't' join.
THIS is the original question.
Last edited by It is Fake; 6/03/2011 10:40am at .
I'd like to add that the whole advertisement contains another fraudulent claim: Paul Cave has NO relation to WAKO. In the past he did, granted. He's been using the WAKO emblem at his events without authorisation and signing letters as late as 2010 with the WAKO association still presented as current. These instances have gone all the way to WAKO International. The new SA Sports Combat Act has seen him and his troop of wannabees suddenly friends with SAAKA (the kickboxing association affiliated to WAKO). The point, don't call him a 'kickboxer'. We might be the bastard child of all martial arts but we still apply standards to whom we associate with
Oh, another point... ISKA SA/NMA (aka the "Paul & Phil Show") is barely represented in SA outside of the Western Cape. It's a regional organisation at best without any meaningful presence in the economic heartland of the country and a fraction of the size of the kickboxing and karate powerhouses - let alone MMA, Kung Fu, etc. If PC's tournaments weren't open, they wouldn't be attended
The fact of the matter is, Phil, that neither you, nor Paul, nor anyone else, have ever been able to prove Paul's qualifications, in spite of many requests, here, and in person at the Dojo. As far as anyone can ascertain, Paul has a 1st Dan in Goju Ryu that he was awarded by his father.
Yet claims the title of Shihan, which is a Post-dan honorific. Usually awarded to grand masters (usually Japanese and direct descendants of the person who developed the style.)
You must see the issue that people have with certifications awarded by the same organization that the awardee is the defacto leader of? Or can't you see that?
Add to that, the issues with claiming affilliation with organizations that you are no longer affiliated with.
It looks like Paul is trying to boost his reputation.
Add to that the fact that just about every other teacher, who is respected by his peers, of any style, sees the way Paul is doing things, as unethical.
Perhaps you should just answer these questions, once abd for all, to settle the debate:
1) What externally recognized non-NMA / non ISKA certifications do Paul hold?
2) By whom was he awarded the title Shihan?
3) Is Paul Cave's academy recognized, by the HQ's of each of the styles he claims to teach / integrate? I mean, is he a 1st Dan with the Aikikai foundation, for instance? Is he certified instructor - level, at least in all the styles he teaches?
Please answer these simple questions and put the matter to rest.
12 pages filled with Paul Cave's students replying on this board and none of them knew where Paul Cave learned his "bjj". Kind of makes me wanna quote obi wan "Who's the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him"
Originally Posted by BeachCarl
seriously can someone just verify if this Paul Cave character holds any legit rank in bjj or not...
If somebody could that would give him more credibility...
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