Paul Cave - martial arts / MMA instructor?

**jucedupp** · Posted On: 12/01/2010 7:07am

Oh and as to your statement:

he is sanctioned under institutions who govern MMA

Anyone can get sanctioned by obeying sports laws. Sanction is NOT EQUAL TO certification. Sanctioned means he may, according to a country's law, host bouts legally. It only means that he complies with rules like weight and having a doctor on the scene etc. It basically means his fights are not "underground."

Certification, on the other hand, means that:

For every style he claims to be an instructor in, he has done white belt, yellow belt, blue belt, purple belt (whatever belt) or grading that martial art requires (such as Kyu in Aikido) and that he has eventually completed all the training for each type of martial art and that he has attained instructors level in each of those martial arts individually.

If he is an MMA instructor, he is JUST that. Then is not a SHIHAN. SHIHAN means at the very least SIXTH DAN (level 6 black belt in each and every martial art he teaches, having started at white belt for EACH martial art). In Japan, Shihan means 10th Black belt or the best guy in the world in that martial art. So basically Paul Cave, by appending Shihan to his name, is saying that he is the top, best, truthfully certified teacher, of all these styles he names on his website, in the whole world.

Interestingly, it will take Japanese Goju Ryu (the only style Cave is rumored to hold any belt in) practitioners about 50 years to reach the 5th dan level. I don't think Cave is even 50 years old.

Do you get why people are saying he runs a mcdojo?

**Curr stopper** · Posted On: 12/01/2010 8:02am

Google Shihan Phil Anderson the co owner aswell,do you have gripes with his accalades also?

**jucedupp** · Posted On: 12/01/2010 8:08am

As long as he can prove his "accolades" and is willing to do so, I have no gripe with anything. This site is called Bullshido.com In other words, it exposes fake martial arts and fake martial arts instructors who claim fake abilities. If he has actually been certified as a guy who has learnt, been tested by the best and has been given his ranking truthfully and honestly, he will NEVER feature on a site like this. What worries me is that he (if he can actually prove his Shihan level qualifications) is willing to associate with somebody who cannot. Or do you agree with people just claiming qualifications in whatever field without being able to prove that qualification?

**jucedupp** · Posted On: 12/01/2010 8:28am

Curr Stopper:

You must try and see the problem here.

1) On their website and on their marketing materials, these guys claim to teach (therefore to be qualified to teach) a range of different, completely divergent martial arts.
2) On their own, each of these arts each take many years to master.
3) These guys call themselves "Shihan" which in the martial arts world, means at least 6th Dan.
4) So the natural assumption is that these guys are claiming: "I have 6th Dan in all these styles I list on my site."
5) do you see how that is impossible?
6) Do you see how they leave that open to interpretation? And why they refuse to furnish qualifications? Because the moment they furnish any certification, and not certification for each and every style they show on their site, it makes them liars in respect of those styles they claim but cannot prove, and that buggers up their wallet.

That is what it comes down to.

**bonesdlite** · Posted On: 5/07/2011 6:23am

Hi loop 35.
Thanks, you've just about summed what I,ve had brewing for some time. I'm also involved with my youngster being a member of Paul Cave's. The plus is that at his age a foundation is laid in a sport to boost his selfconfidence. I however have my doubt his future lies here, as the whole setup is major commercialised, and as I have heard firsthand, don't try and come up with any suggestions, as the Shihan will choke you with a quick overpowering response, and the now wellknown phrase " that is not business, I'm trying to run a business here". Now don't get me wrong, it's in "how" you do it, and how you communicate it. Maybee i'm wrong, it's just that somewhere in my roots I miss the "traditional" in martial arts, and this whole "commercial" approach I find hard to swallow. But at the moment I'm also one of the suckers, once the youngster exells, I will probably duck for one of the "traditional Dojo's. I however monitor the whole situation closely.

**Phil Anderson** · Posted On: 5/19/2011 1:26pm

Pity you have a hidden agenda, maybe do some "real" homework on the Cave and Anderson families in South Africa before judging us. Both our families were involved in karate since the 1950's. Both Paul and have been "active" in martial arts for almost 39 years. We are the hardest working organization in South Africa, and yes, what is not commercialized these days? It's okay to advertize products but not martialn arts ? If anyone has more experience than us, and puts in more effort for their members...please feel free to critisize, if not, please keep your peace.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 5/19/2011 2:05pm

Slow down and type better because, at your age, you can't claim 39 years experience in the Martial arts.

**GulfCoast** · Posted On: 5/20/2011 9:59am

I found this language on the dojo in question's website to be MOST interesting:

*******
IMPORTANT! Although the Academy incorporates many aspects of Martial Arts and grades students using them, the grades are sanctioned by certain International Organisations for specific arts and Nationally through NMA/ISKA South Africa for other arts. Our system incorporating BJJ / Traditional Japenese JJ and Russian Sambo although at times consisting of the same techniques is our own Hybrid version. We do not lay claim to any specific grade to any specific style. We are far to open minded to follow that path. If you want a specific grade in B J-J then for now, you would have to train at both our Dojo and a sanctioned B J-J Dojo. We will be glad to point you in the right direction. This does under no circumstances undervalue what we teach! As for Aikido, we utilise mainly specific throws, counters and defensive techniques we found to have been highly effective in real world situations rather than only on a dojo floor. We do not teach specific syllabus on Aikido alone. We incorporate it into our training as is the case with some of the other added styles and forms."
****

It seems to me they are admitting that they CANNOT promote in BJJ, that is why a student would have to study in 2 different dojo's per their own disclaimer.

Likewise, it is unclear to me how an instructor can call themselves "shihan" which is a most elite level of skill/knowledge/peer recognition, yet have the following disclaimer on the front page of the school's website: "We do not lay claim to any specific grade to any specific style."

Just my 2 cents.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 5/20/2011 10:02am

If you use the titles Sempai, Sensei, and Shihan you do follow that path.

Dojo Etiquette

When late for class, excuse yourself to the Sensei by acknowledging him. Students who are late should try harder to be on time.

Never practice Kumite (sparring) unless an instructor in present. When practising against a higher grade, do your very best to show respect for their grade. Remember that they have your lower grade in mind and will not be fighting to their capabilities.
Do not challenge a higher grade.

Address your instructor as Sempai, Sensei or Shihan. Do not address instructor by their first names.

Gradings are compulsory but competing in tournaments is not.

So, he doesn't follow that path but uses these titles and gradings as well. That's why you should take a breath before typing some contradictory drivel.

**GulfCoast** · Posted On: 5/20/2011 3:17pm

I should add, the underlining and highlighting in the quote I put up from the website in question is underlined/highlighted on the actual website, not added by me.

I agree that they contradict themselves, both on the credentials to teach BJJ and Aikido (if you have the credentials to teach, why can't you assign a BJJ grade), and the instructor "titles" as well, since "We do not lay claim to any specific grade to any specific style."