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  1. Dsimon3387 is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/24/2009 6:13pm

    Join us... or die
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by JSPE948
    "Hi All,

    Sensei has repeated some news at the beginning of the first classes this year, so I think it bears posting here as well.

    1) Sensei is planning to build a new Honbu dojo in the next 3-4 years. He sees this as a type of Mecca for the Bujinkan. To avoid getting hit by taxes as much as possible, he would like it to be built with tax-deductable donations, so he would like the international Bujinkan community to donate funds for the new dojo. (Shiraishi Sensei was the first one to make a donation for the new dojo, to the tune of 500,000 yen. Sensei mentioned this specifically to the whole class at least twice.) The existing dojo will not be torn down any time soon, but will remain where it is for the next 3 to 4 years.

    2) Sensei will be registering the Bujinkan as a religious organization (the term he used each time was "宗教法人" - shuukyou houjinn, for those who might wish to clarify) - again, for tax reasons. The first time I heard him say it I thought I must have heard wrong, and asked another Japanese-speaker sitting beside me for confirmation - he told me that I heard wrong, but Sensei announced it again last night at Ayase, and there was no mistake. He joked that we'd soon all be training with shaved heads (ha ha). This will probably come as a shock to some people, but there is no mistake about what he said.

    So, interesting times ahead for the Bujinkan. Sensei is always keeping us on our toes.

    万変不驚

    Shawn "


    Sooooooooooo Masaaki Hatsumi is turning his martial art into a religion to evade paying his taxes. There are so many things wrong with this I don't know where to start. Deceitful and shady to begin with. A God-complex? Maybe. What does everyone think?

    Well the Buj being what it is becoming... I stopped being a card carrying member a few years back. I have not seen much decent stuff come out lately and the rank inflation is bad because it makes any rank essentially meaningless in the organization.

    Having said this why is this move necessarily bad? I mean come on you don't try to avoid taxes? I mean I question towards what end Hatsumi is building his empire up at his age and sans a son to carry on, but why is this necessarily so horrible?

    I mean **** I don't want to give my **** away to the government and I have two sons but if I didn't I still would not want too. I smell a self righteous attack the Buj thread unless someone can honestly say they wouldn't try to dodge the tax man as well. and keep in mind that a lot would go to the government!
    Last edited by Dsimon3387; 1/24/2009 6:18pm at .
  2. 1point2 is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/24/2009 6:17pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 剛 and 柔

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you don't see a problem with a martial arts instructor claiming his school to be a religious organization for the purpose of tax shelter, you're a moron and have no right to post here, or to breath the air on planet Earth for that matter.
  3. Dsimon3387 is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/24/2009 6:21pm

    Join us... or die
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1point2
    If you don't see a problem with a martial arts instructor claiming his school to be a religious organization for the purpose of tax shelter, you're a moron and have no right to post here, or to breath the air on planet Earth for that matter.
    ah the last refuge of the idiot... ad hominum attacks... tell me socrates why don;t you explain to little ole moron me why avoiding the tax man is such reprehensible behavoir? and furthermore why don't you tell me that you would give your **** to your government because the tax man does sayeth?

    You are partially right in that there is a moron here.
  4. hoodedmonk is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/24/2009 6:24pm


     Style: Bjj

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I don't know if I would use religion as a way to do it, but that is just me. I am after all a monk.
  5. CrackFox is online now
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    Posted On:
    1/24/2009 6:27pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hatsumi should totally get one of those disabled stickers while he's at it. Then he'd be able to park right next to the entrance, wherever he went.
  6. maofas is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/24/2009 6:56pm

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     Style: Kenkojuku Karate, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well, in his defense, using random legal loopholes to evade taxes does sound like something a true ninja would do.
  7. vaquero de las nalgas is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/24/2009 7:16pm


     Style: Taijutsu, Hsing I

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The way I heard the story being told, the local government was threatening the Honbu dojo with demolition to put a new road through. The only way Hatsuumi could avoid this state of affairs, was to have the dojo declared a shrine. There was no talk of tax evasion.

    When I searched Wikipedia, the entry says: "Article 20 of the 1947 Constitution states, 'Freedom of religion is guaranteed to all. No religious organization shall receive any privileges from the State, nor exercise any political authority'. Separation of religion and the state, however, is a more difficult issue." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_religion

    However a Google search revealed the following quote:
    However, the vast majority of new religions are focused on peace and the attainment of happiness, although many Japanese who have no involvement appear suspicious of such organisations. Tax dodging or money laundering are, according to some, par for the course.
    http://www.insidejapantours.com/religion/

    And then there is this quote from a "monk in training":
    As far as taxes are concerned, the image is SUBSTANTIALLY more complicated than Ashikaga has painted it. The fact is that monks/priests do pay taxes on most things. The Japanese government does in fact charge taxes on things that are not religious services. For example, the cost of the ritual performed at a funernal services are not taxed but income made off the temple parking lot is. Additionally, that fancy car, those cigarettes, those drinks with the girls... all taxed. Although hardly a fair or realistic image of a monk/priest, I might add. In fact, most temples are like small businesses in the fact that they are jurdical persons under the law-- i.e. they have certain priviledges and responsibilities. Religious jurdical persons, like their secular counterparts, do receive tax breaks in some areas (religious services) but not in most and this is actually quite a lot like most small businesses. However, I do not feel that this makes it a business. It makes it an institution in society that has certain responsibilities under the law. This isn't hypocracy, it is reality.
    http://www.jref.com/forum/archive/index.php /t-19569.html Buddhism in Japan - Religion or business? And then this:
    As of December 2005, 182,796 out of 223,871 religious groups were certified by the Government as religious organizations with corporate status, according to the Agency for Cultural Affairs. The Government does not require religious groups to register or apply for certification; however, certified religious organizations receive tax benefits. More than 82 percent of religious groups had been certified by 2005.
    www.oslocoalition.org/documents/UPR/japan.doc

    I don't know for a fact that religious organizations avoid taxation in Japan like they do in the States. Perhaps someone else can weigh in on this subject with more authority? It looks as though religions are treated similarly to corporations.

    In any event, few people take Bujinkan seriously on this BBS . Why should making Bujinkan a religion matter to you?
  8. Dsimon3387 is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/24/2009 7:29pm

    Join us... or die
     

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    Just to clarify I am not a shill for the buj, I am not an advocate for the Buj... I don't generally condone Hatsumi's actions, i.e. for example the rank inflation is imo reprehensible.

    But this board and section is supposed to be about critical thinking and self righteous catfighting over an issue like this is really stupid and not refelctive of critical thinking unless someone can state how Hatsumi is doing something that other people would not do in similar circumstances.

    A lot of organizations do the same thing in education in this country every day btw. And... the catholic church which runs in an extremely secular level is no more or no less of a religion than a lot of other organizations... so why wouldn't a smart teacher try to get the same protections?

    Rich people use loopholes everyday folks It is extremely stupid and niave to assume that somehow they are less immoral than Hatsumi... what if Hatsumi used a corporate loophole instead would that make him more pious?

    I recommend reading the Euthyphro stated by Socrates written by Plato folks... that and maybe take the earmuffs off and the pacifyers out. REligion is a very secular business!!

    Now if somoene can state how this is fraudelent and perhaps ill advised and reflective of bad training and refelctive of misleading students please state your case...
    Last edited by Dsimon3387; 1/24/2009 7:31pm at .
  9. Munacra is offline
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    I Ducked Out on a Gong Sau

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    Posted On:
    1/24/2009 8:32pm


     Style: Gentleman Adventurer

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsimon3387
    Just to clarify I am not a shill for the buj, I am not an advocate for the Buj... I don't generally condone Hatsumi's actions, i.e. for example the rank inflation is imo reprehensible.

    But this board and section is supposed to be about critical thinking and self righteous catfighting over an issue like this is really stupid and not refelctive of critical thinking unless someone can state how Hatsumi is doing something that other people would not do in similar circumstances.

    A lot of organizations do the same thing in education in this country every day btw. And... the catholic church which runs in an extremely secular level is no more or no less of a religion than a lot of other organizations... so why wouldn't a smart teacher try to get the same protections?

    Rich people use loopholes everyday folks It is extremely stupid and niave to assume that somehow they are less immoral than Hatsumi... what if Hatsumi used a corporate loophole instead would that make him more pious?

    I recommend reading the Euthyphro stated by Socrates written by Plato folks... that and maybe take the earmuffs off and the pacifyers out. REligion is a very secular business!!

    Now if somoene can state how this is fraudelent and perhaps ill advised and reflective of bad training and refelctive of misleading students please state your case...
    Are you retarded? This is a serious question.
  10. JSPE948 is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/24/2009 10:38pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsimon3387
    Just to clarify I am not a shill for the buj, I am not an advocate for the Buj... I don't generally condone Hatsumi's actions, i.e. for example the rank inflation is imo reprehensible.

    But this board and section is supposed to be about critical thinking and self righteous catfighting over an issue like this is really stupid and not refelctive of critical thinking unless someone can state how Hatsumi is doing something that other people would not do in similar circumstances.

    A lot of organizations do the same thing in education in this country every day btw. And... the catholic church which runs in an extremely secular level is no more or no less of a religion than a lot of other organizations... so why wouldn't a smart teacher try to get the same protections?

    Rich people use loopholes everyday folks It is extremely stupid and niave to assume that somehow they are less immoral than Hatsumi... what if Hatsumi used a corporate loophole instead would that make him more pious?

    I recommend reading the Euthyphro stated by Socrates written by Plato folks... that and maybe take the earmuffs off and the pacifyers out. REligion is a very secular business!!

    Now if somoene can state how this is fraudelent and perhaps ill advised and reflective of bad training and refelctive of misleading students please state your case...

    Of course businesses look for tax loopholes. That's standard business practice. What Hatsumi is doing doesn't compare. Hatsumi is supposed to be the head of several martial arts which hold high moral and ethical standards. Now, he is lying by claiming religion to avoid his taxes..........that came right out of his mouth. That is immoral and unethical. He has already taken advantage of countless foreigners who have bought into his story. Now he wants them to donate money so he can build a bigger dojo to make more money for himself. How do you think the Japanese are going to look at a "new religion" made up of almost 100% foreigners who dress strange and run around following some old Japanese man? Masaaki Hatsumi is out there, and now he's gone over the edge. It is highly likely he's also doing it to try to immortalize himself. It's common knowledge the guys ego is way out of control. I don't care if he changes his mind and doesn't do this crazy idea. The damage has been done.
    Last edited by JSPE948; 1/24/2009 10:41pm at .
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