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  1. SenseiTucker is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/23/2009 5:17pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Shohei~Ryu Karate

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Karate & Martial Arts Evolution. Is change needed or not. Lets see your thoughts

    I am a traditional karate instructor as is my Sensei, and have been asked this question many times over. Will I ever incorporate MMA into my school and blend together. Will incorporating MMA be the only way to keep traditional schools going. My Sensei feels highly negative on this aspect and says we shouldnt mix styles for the respect of staying a "Traditional Karatedo". I love teaching and training with old traditional aspects and conditioning. I was just wondering if traditional instructors like me should evolve or will the ways traditionalists train without MMA be able to last? :icon_scra
  2. Telum is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/23/2009 5:41pm


     Style: Karate, Krav Maga, BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Good karate should look like him:

  3. 1point2 is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/23/2009 5:51pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 剛 and 柔

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If by MMA you mean actual combat at all ranges, yes you need to do that.

    Otherwise it's akin to Japanese opera or Okinawan dance, albeit with more yelling and subjugation.

    Also, wrong forum n00b.
  4. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/23/2009 5:58pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by SenseiTucker
    I am a traditional karate instructor as is my Sensei, and have been asked this question many times over. Will I ever incorporate MMA into my school and blend together. Will incorporating MMA be the only way to keep traditional schools going. My Sensei feels highly negative on this aspect and says we shouldnt mix styles for the respect of staying a "Traditional Karatedo". I love teaching and training with old traditional aspects and conditioning. I was just wondering if traditional instructors like me should evolve or will the ways traditionalists train without MMA be able to last? :icon_scra
    You do not train the exact way your instructor did. Nor does he train the exact way his instructor did so on and so forth Amen.

    This is the exact reason the MMA vs TMA dichotomy exists. People, on both sides, don't understand they are mutually compatible.

    IMO MMA= fighting that tries to cover all ranges of fighting, under the best possible rule set available, with a healthy amount of pressure testing.

    Currently, this "style" uses BJJ/MT/Boxing as the mainstays in most gyms. Thing is we have had many traditional Martial artists compete and do well in MMA. They fill the holes in their game but, retain their TMA back ground. So, this straw man you created is false. What you should do is figure how to keep what you deem as "traditional" and evolve as all other TMAers did in the past.
  5. bassai is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/23/2009 6:01pm


     Style: shotokan

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Concentrate on teaching core karate techniques (punching , kicking etc) well , and point them towards the nearest judo club for grappling.
  6. Gezere is offline
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    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    1/23/2009 6:09pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kakutogi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by SenseiTucker
    I am a traditional karate instructor as is my Sensei, and have been asked this question many times over. Will I ever incorporate MMA into my school and blend together. Will incorporating MMA be the only way to keep traditional schools going. My Sensei feels highly negative on this aspect and says we shouldnt mix styles for the respect of staying a "Traditional Karatedo". I love teaching and training with old traditional aspects and conditioning. I was just wondering if traditional instructors like me should evolve or will the ways traditionalists train without MMA be able to last? :icon_scra
    Ask yourself this, What exactly is traditional Karate? Is traditional Karate holding on to a culture, most likely not your own, for any reason than proficiency at combat?

    If all you want to do is cultural preservation then fine stick with what you're doing. If to goal of your students is proficiency in combat (the main "traditional" focus of MA) then you might have to send them else where.

    Now to play the analogy game, everyone play along:

    Everything evolves over time. If holding on to "traditional" aspects was all that is needed then why doesn't a Model T not perform as proficiently as current model Corvette. It can't without some HEAVY modifications. People hat to admit it but MA is the same way.

    OK someone else.....
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  7. Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/23/2009 6:21pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Savate (LBF/SD/LC) - BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by SenseiTucker
    I am a traditional karate instructor as is my Sensei, and have been asked this question many times over. Will I ever incorporate MMA into my school and blend together. Will incorporating MMA be the only way to keep traditional schools going. My Sensei feels highly negative on this aspect and says we shouldnt mix styles for the respect of staying a "Traditional Karatedo". I love teaching and training with old traditional aspects and conditioning. I was just wondering if traditional instructors like me should evolve or will the ways traditionalists train without MMA be able to last? :icon_scra
    While I always think that a good karateka also should study Judo, it doesn't mean that you should learn Judo to teach it to your karate students ( Study it for yourself ).

    Why don't you work together with a local Judo Dojo: Karateka get 50% discount at Judo and Judoka get 50% discount at your dojo. You can stay teaching Karate, the Judo teacher can keep teaching Judo without studying Karate.
    And both your students get some MMA experience while still training in (T)MAs and it will maybe even cheaper then just studying MMA, since most MMA clubs are expensive and you're not always sure what they are mixing in their MMA.

    *edit*

    I forgot to say, that if your students are going to learn Judo, your Karate has to be trained like Judo is trained (alive, evolving, non-compliant and some decent competitions) or your students will just stay with the Judo.
    Last edited by Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs; 1/23/2009 6:28pm at .
    Quote Originally Posted by Jiujitsu77
    You know you are crazy about BJJ/Martial arts when...
    Quote Originally Posted by Humanzee
    ...your books on Kama Sutra and BJJ are interchangeable.
    Quote Originally Posted by jk55299 on Keysi Fighting Method
    It looks like this is a great fighting method if someone replaces your shampoo with superglue.
    The real deadly:
  8. Kung-Fu Joe is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/23/2009 6:35pm


     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by 1point2
    If by MMA you mean actual combat at all ranges, yes you need to do that.

    Otherwise it's akin to Japanese opera or Okinawan dance, albeit with more yelling and subjugation.

    Also, wrong forum n00b.
    Really? So, since Muay Thai doesn't incorporate combat at all ranges, it's just playtime? Kyokushin Karate and Boxing, as well?

    What about Judo? Is that just akin to Japanese opera, since it doesn't incorporate all ranges? BJJ? Wrestling?

    There's a difference between live training and MMA training, you know. You can have the former without needing the latter.

    --Joe
  9. ChickenBeakFist is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/23/2009 6:41pm


     Style: Hillbilly Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by SenseiTucker
    I am a traditional karate instructor as is my Sensei, and have been asked this question many times over. Will I ever incorporate MMA into my school and blend together. Will incorporating MMA be the only way to keep traditional schools going. My Sensei feels highly negative on this aspect and says we shouldnt mix styles for the respect of staying a "Traditional Karatedo". I love teaching and training with old traditional aspects and conditioning. I was just wondering if traditional instructors like me should evolve or will the ways traditionalists train without MMA be able to last? :icon_scra
    Both you guys take some time to read this



    Then take a moment to think about how MMA (then called "No-Holds Barred) is just as old as Karatedo

    Oh, read this too. The Tradition of the New by Harold Rosenberg

    Last edited by ChickenBeakFist; 1/23/2009 6:47pm at .
  10. danniboi07 is online now
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    Posted On:
    1/23/2009 6:57pm


     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Gezere
    If all you want to do is cultural preservation then fine stick with what you're doing. If to goal of your students is proficiency in combat (the main "traditional" focus of MA) then you might have to send them else where.

    Now to play the analogy game, everyone play along:

    Everything evolves over time. If holding on to "traditional" aspects was all that is needed then why doesn't a Model T not perform as proficiently as current model Corvette. It can't without some HEAVY modifications. People hat to admit it but MA is the same way.

    OK someone else.....
    Repeated for prosperity.

    If your goal is strictly to promote the culture that you were taught, then by all means stay the way you are.

    If you want to produce superior fighters, then you might have to change.

    This also begs the question, how, exactly, do you train your students? What is a normal training session like under Sensei Tucker.

    If you're already using full contact alive sparring then I don't see any reason for you to change. If your school places heavy emphasis on kata and 2-move sparring, and your goal is to promote good fighting skills, then you may have to change.
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