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  1. Nid is offline

    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    1/02/2004 1:34pm

    supporting member
     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    FDA did it.
  2. Punisher is offline
    Punisher's Avatar

    Seeker of Truth

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    Posted On:
    1/02/2004 3:01pm

    supporting member
     Style: Five Animal Fighting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I agree with the Ephedra ban. The ban was primarily based on a report done by the RAND Corporation, an independant think tank/ research institute. A brief synopsis of their findings can be found here:

    RAND Ephedra Report

    The ban doesn't have some much to do with Ephedra being proven unsafe, but a lack of proof that it IS safe.

    The problem with Ephedra is the way it is classified, marketed, and distributed. It needs to be considered a drug and go through the same evaluation/approval processes that other DRUGS go through.

    I don't think Ephedra will be banned forever, but more research is needed to find out what it does, how it does it, and how safe it is.
  3. PeedeeShaolin is offline
    PeedeeShaolin's Avatar

    Co-Founder, Retired Admin

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    Posted On:
    1/02/2004 3:24pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, Karate,

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    MiloNYC is 100% on the money(no pun intended).

    I've seen people lose weight and become healthy because of ephedra. Its just CHEAP and no fukking WAY is the FDA going to allow something cheap that actually WORKS to stay on the market! HELL NO! Show me the motherfukking MONEY!

    If you agree with the Ephedra ban then why do you suppose cigarrettes are legal? They hurt the person taking them ANd the person next to them.

    I used ephedra for YEARS, just like alot of other people.

    Hurting yourself with ephedra is like hurting yourself with alchohol: entirely possible but you have to be a complete fukking idiot for it to take place.
    "All warfare is based on deception." -Sun Tzu, ca. 400BC


    Reverse punch Kiaii!!!
  4. Kempocos is offline

    Welterweight

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    Dec 2002
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    Posted On:
    1/02/2004 4:02pm

    supporting member
     Style: SECRET DEADLY

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Peedee I agree, it is a DUMBASS issue not a product issue. When used correctly it does its job.
    ----------------------------------------
    After reading Jekyll's threads I bring back an old sig.......

    Do you really train or just bore people on message boards and parties talking about it.
  5. poet is offline
    poet's Avatar

    Working my way back to health

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    Posted On:
    1/02/2004 4:08pm

    supporting member
     Style: Injury magnet

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by Punisher
    The problem with Ephedra is the way it is classified, marketed, and distributed. It needs to be considered a drug and go through the same evaluation/approval processes that other DRUGS go through.
    Maybe they should go after false or missleading marketing of Ephedra then.
    Any drug, over the counter or perscription, can be harful or lethal taken to excess. No classification will change this.

    Go after the flase marketing people for manslaughter that would do more good.
  6. Omega Supreme is offline

    Administrator

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    Posted On:
    1/02/2004 8:06pm

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Before all the warning labels were put on enphedra politics where were all the results. Enphedra was put on the market without enough testing done. Who was most likely to be effected, what was the possible outcome if not taken correctly, should minors be exposed to this drug in easily accessable containers etc?

    "if taken as directed" is what I've heard from many body builders and athletes. Back in the late and early 90's the directions were take no more than 3 times a day as a supplement. The directions failed to take into account that enphedra was an appetitie suppresent too. The lack of Carbohydrates taken in to balance out the use of enphedra is usually failed to be mentioned.

    Where on the warning label does it say "can have adverse effect during competitive" exercise? These warnings that you see today is post death warnings.

    When something is taken the way it was intended then all your arguements are quite right, except you don't take into account that basically humans were used as guine pigs to find out what those adverse effects were.

    Sorry guys you're wrong with your arguements. I don't believe they should ban enphedra products but those companies are definitely responsible for not doing any serious studies on the matter. A guy almost died in the NHB ring because of that crap and with the proper warning it probably wouldn't of happened.
  7. Omega Supreme is offline

    Administrator

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    Posted On:
    1/02/2004 8:06pm

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by poet
    Maybe they should go after false or missleading marketing of Ephedra then.
    Any drug, over the counter or perscription, can be harful or lethal taken to excess. No classification will change this.

    Go after the flase marketing people for manslaughter that would do more good.

    That would be my answer too.
  8. Black_Rose is offline

    Registered Member

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    Australia
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    Posted On:
    1/02/2004 8:33pm


     Style: Budo Taijutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Is this stuff banned in Australia>
  9. Wolf1099 is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    1/02/2004 8:54pm


     Style: Defense Tactics

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It's like steroids. I've seen some people who use steroids cautiously and they get great results(no female like breasts, testical shrinking or anything like that) But too many people abuse them and that's why they mess people up. Ephedra speeds up the heart rate and burns more calories, but if you take too much you'll have a heart attack. That's the mistake people make. Really, there's no problem with steroids or anything like that as long as you take them in moderation. I think it's not the drug that makes the people die, it's them selfs.
  10. Punisher is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/02/2004 8:57pm

    supporting member
     Style: Five Animal Fighting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Omega is correct.

    I wouldn't have any problem with Ephedra if there was credible science to support its safety and there were certain actions taken to make sure people knew how to take it properly and what the risks were. If a doctor was passing it out in controlled doses it would be one thing.

    People have this misconception that "natural = safe" which isn't always true. There have also been major problems in quality control, with different caplets in the same bottle having large concetration differences if the active ingredients. Most supplement companies say this is in the past and the same concentration differences can be found other drugs, OTC and prescription.

    You may say people that use Ephedra wrong or even abuse it are dumb asses, and you may be right, but there is a lot of reasons why people make the wrong decisions with these products.

    One major one is the "it can't happen to me" factor. Guys think "I'm in good shape, I can handle this stuff, I know what I doing, those stories are just bullshit" and a whole list of other excuses to justify what they are doing in their mind.

    The same type of thinking leads to people taking more than the recommended usage. People think that the "recommended" usage is artificially low to protect the company and they double or triple up on the stuff for quicker results.
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