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  1. Bare Knuckled is offline

    痴驴子

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    Posted On:
    1/16/2009 12:12pm


     Style: Baguazhang/Xingyi /Huamen

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bare Knuckled
    Fake don't put words in my mouth here this where we usually get into trouble...... I used it as an example where did I say that my Shifu is better then anyone else I am not selling skills or credentials utilizing someone who is an actual instructor in the set conversation gives it more crediability. I didn't say that master Zhong is better then anyone else and I didn't make it into an advertisment for wudang shan.


    If you want to start this crap again we hash it out in the trollshido forum but don't you dare take what I put as an example for the set conversation and try to denounce the topic at hand if I use my instructor as an example there is nothing wrong with that. Considering I saw a need an actual example to be demonstrated to for the person who asked the question in the first place. I am telling people about it if I wanted to sell it I would be working for an advertising agency not posting in forum. Don't be a twit.

    Lineage is usually transmission of succession a Pedigree would be blood related considering that not all lineages are transmitted via through Pai( or family styles that' only describes transmission of hereditary succession. There are numerious styles that are passed down from instructor to student who aren't blood related so it's not a pedigree persay as it is a legacy is being transfered from one generation to another.
  2. Bare Knuckled is offline

    痴驴子

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    Posted On:
    1/16/2009 12:22pm


     Style: Baguazhang/Xingyi /Huamen

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake
    Bring this to the table again and I'll have you banned from the CMA forum are we clear?



    Notice, he is explaining that lineage isn't important but, he sells his teachers quals, his quals, the skills etc all the while saying it doesn't matter.
    Watch this is what he is saying:

    True

    Actually it is it just doesn't translate to skill.


    Actually it really does. That's why I always laugh at this very question.

    Lineage=/=Skill
    Credibility=/=Skill.


    Lineage=Credibility concerning your knowledge and learning of your art. See, If we can trace back that you studied 10 years that's your pedigree. That means you might be legit.

    Lineage is important when you are trying to make sure someone isn't fraudulent. No, it isn't important when questioning skill and proficiency. These are two separate issues that are often mixed together to create straw-man arguments.


    Perspective Student looking for a good teacher
    He is a verified Sanda/MMA/BJJ/wushu competitor. Good.
    He has verifiable lineage through "X" teacher. Better.
    He has a fight record or produced "X" amount of verifiable fighters. Better.
    He has shown his skills, his students have skills, when I watching class. Better.

    Great school IMO.

    Now some schools lack some of these things and that is fine. To me, no lineage equals no money from me in most cases.



    Fake don't put words in my mouth here this where we usually get into trouble...... I used it as an example where did I say that my Shifu is better then anyone else I am not selling skills or credentials utilizing someone who is an actual instructor in the set conversation gives it more crediability. I didn't say that master Zhong is better then anyone else and I didn't make it into an advertisment for wudang shan.


    If you want to start this crap again we hash it out in the trollshido forum but don't you dare take what I put as an example for the set conversation and try to denounce the topic at hand if I use my instructor as an example there is nothing wrong with that. Considering I saw a need an actual example to be demonstrated to for the person who asked the question in the first place. I am telling people about it if I wanted to sell it I would be working for an advertising agency not posting in forum. Don't be a twit.
    Last edited by It is Fake; 1/16/2009 12:26pm at .
  3. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/16/2009 12:26pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bare Knuckled
    Fake don't put words in my mouth here this where we usually get into trouble...... I used it as an example where did I say that my Shifu is better then anyone else I am not selling skills or credentials utilizing someone who is an actual instructor in the set conversation gives it more crediability. I didn't say that master Zhong is better then anyone else and I didn't make it into an advertisment for wudang shan.


    If you want to start this crap again we hash it out in the trollshido forum but don't you dare take what I put as an example for the set conversation and try to denounce the topic at hand if I use my instructor as an example there is nothing wrong with that. Considering I saw a need an actual example to be demonstrated to for the person who asked the question in the first place. I am telling people about it if I wanted to sell it I would be working for an advertising agency not posting in forum. Don't be a twit.

    I didn't put any words in your mouth. Now, I'm a twit? This coming from the guy that talked big, on a trollshido thread about meeting Der, and then mysteriously disappeared?

    **** you and get out.

    Also, Learn how to read. I didn't denounce the topic you idiot.

    I told you not to bring up your trollshido garbage and you did again. I showed that you bringing up your sifu in two different paragraphs was the exact lineage/pedigree garbage he is complaining about. You are the epitome of a walking contradiction.
  4. Homernoid is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/16/2009 12:53pm


     Style: Taijiquan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ItIsFake, could you move my posting from above please, my timing was unlucky.
  5. Ming Loyalist is offline
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    solves problems with violence

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    Posted On:
    1/16/2009 12:57pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, Hung Family Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake
    This coming from the guy that talked big, on a trollshido thread about meeting Der, and then mysteriously disappeared?
    yeah, whatever happened with that?

    seems like someone deserves a "liar & coward" tag.
    "Face punches are an essential character building part of a martial art. You don't truly love your children unless you allow them to get punched in the face." - chi-conspiricy
    "When I was a little boy, I had a sailor suit, but it didn't mean I was in the Navy." - Mtripp on the subject of a 5 year old karate black belt
    "Without actual qualifications to be a Zen teacher, your instructor is just another roundeye raping Asian culture for a buck." - Errant108
    "Seriously, who gives a **** what you or Errant think? You're Asian males, everyone just ignores you, unless you're in a krotty movie." - new2bjj
  6. Siniq is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/16/2009 1:01pm


     Style: Gym drifter

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ming Loyalist
    yeah, whatever happened with that?

    seems like someone deserves a "liar & coward" tag.
    how's about "will travel to avoid a fight"
  7. Homernoid is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/16/2009 1:29pm


     Style: Taijiquan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Homernoid
    ItIsFake, could you move my posting from above please, my timing was unlucky.
    I managed to get that posting in the lineage-thread, so its fine now I suppose. Thx anyway.
  8. Bare Knuckled is offline

    痴驴子

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    Posted On:
    1/16/2009 2:02pm


     Style: Baguazhang/Xingyi /Huamen

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bare Knuckled
    Usually most of it's about prestiege and who your training with denotes wether your training is "pure art or system". I mean even mixed martial artists have that too, i.e for example you study gracie system therefore you must be bad ass. Not always the case. I am not really held in high esteem in here but I can tell you at face value that lineage doesn't amount to a hill of beans. It's cool to have that kind of back ground if you do and actually studying under the set individual but making claims about set lineage and back ground doesn't make you any more crediable.


    I mean a perfect example here is that one of my instructors at Wudang Shan Si was master Zhong Zhi Biao and he is a 15th generation of the Zhang San Fang school there is
    oh okay so he is a daoist monk he has spent his entire life studying and training but is he a good instructor does understand the concepts of Neijiquan ( I would hope so considering wudang is internal school of martial arts), does he also have a firm understanding of Weijiquan or external arts and styles as well ? Just because a person may have a lineage or back ground doesn't mean they're good or better than others.

    I was fortunate in the respect of the fact that Shifu Zhong was not worried about his lineage but what he could personally do himself. I learnedHuamen and Bagua in addition to Baijiquan and Xingyi styles taught. The training was grueling and hard I didn't spend hours practicing back flips and flying kicks. We spent time on Chuanshu ( bare handed fighting) and I got my ass kicked . But Sifu Zhong was a great instructor had a record of being in lei-tai and full contact matches . What does this all mean just because you have lineage doesn't make you any better then anyone else it's not pedigree ( some people like to think it is but it's not) and you personally can suck too.



    I want to note that I said "example " I didn't say oh my instructor has better skills than
    any body else don't put words in my mouth and try to be devil's advocate for me I never said that or selling anything about someones skills or lineage. I used my instructor as an example about those who do have lineages and that it doesn't matter about the lineage so much as it's the person studying it and acheving great success within that set style and system. If you want to get into arguement take it into the trollshido area and we can hash it out in there.

    Don't be a twit and start something that makes no sense at all. if I wanted advertise for wudang shan I would be doing it working for an advertising agency not in a small forum based group chat. Bottom line pedigree or lineage is hereditary based on family and race not on oral tradition. Unless in this case we are talking about the origin of the style based on who it started with. As in most cases with chinese martial arts finding one particular individual is very difficult because a style consists usually of more then creator or set individual. But even then Chen style is strictly Chen meaning that it was passed on it's lineage and has a pedigree so referring to a chinese (race or hereditary succession) would making it a chinese style.

    Saying that I trained for ten years in set style doesn't make it a lineage or a pedigree if I was the son of the instructor then it would be my pedigree to say that I have the lineage of that style.



    lin⋅e⋅age1 the line of descendants of a particular ancestor; family; race var interfaceflash = new LEXICOFlashObject ( "http://cache.lexico.com/d/g/speaker.swf", "speaker", "60", "18", "", "6"); interfaceflash.addParam("loop", "false"); interfaceflash.addParam("quality", "high"); interfaceflash.addParam("menu", "false"); interfaceflash.addParam("salign", "t"); interfaceflash.addParam("FlashVars", "soundUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fcache.lexico.com%2Fdictiona ry%2Faudio%2Fluna%2FL02%2FL0270600.mp3"); interfaceflash.write();




    ped⋅i⋅gree
    1. A line of ancestors; a lineage.
    2. A list of ancestors; a family tree.
    3. A chart of an individual's ancestors used in human genetics to analyze Mendelian inheritance of certain traits.
  9. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/16/2009 2:04pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So, after that huge debate in trollshido about quoting your sources you fail to do it again.

    What a **** up.

    1lin·e·age Listen to the pronunciation of 1lineage
    Pronunciation:
    \ˈli-nē-ij also ˈli-nij\
    Function:
    noun
    Date:
    14th century

    1 a: descent in a line from a common progenitor b: derivation2: a group of individuals tracing descent from a common ancestor ; especially : such a group of persons whose common ancestor is regarded as its founder


    pedigree
    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pedigree

    Main Entry:
    ped·i·gree Listen to the pronunciation of pedigree
    Pronunciation:
    \ˈpe-də-ˌgrē\
    Function:
    noun
    Etymology:
    Middle English pedegru, from Anglo-French pé de grue, literally, crane's foot; from the shape made by the lines of a genealogical chart
    Date:
    15th century

    1: a register recording a line of ancestors

    2 a: an ancestral line : lineage b: the origin and the history of something ; broadly : background , history3 a: a distinguished ancestry b: the recorded purity of breed of an individual or strain
    Now, go back read my post, and understand what I'm saying. If not no more posts got it?

    You know what stay the **** off this thread until, you can answer correctly.

    Once again, you sit here and make multiple posts trying to vet your lineage. Go do it in your ymas thread.
  10. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/16/2009 2:07pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bare Knuckled
    I want to note that I said "example " I didn't say oh my instructor has better skills than
    any body else don't put words in my mouth and try to be devil's advocate for me I never said that or selling anything about someones skills or lineage. I used my instructor as an example about those who do have lineages and that it doesn't matter about the lineage so much as it's the person studying it and acheving great success within that set style and system. If you want to get into arguement take it into the trollshido area and we can hash it out in there.

    Don't be a twit and start something that makes no sense at all. if I wanted advertise for wudang shan I would be doing it working for an advertising agency not in a small forum based group chat. Bottom line pedigree or lineage is hereditary based on family and race not on oral tradition. Unless in this case we are talking about the origin of the style based on who it started with. As in most cases with chinese martial arts finding one particular individual is very difficult because a style consists usually of more then creator or set individual. But even then Chen style is strictly Chen meaning that it was passed on it's lineage and has a pedigree so referring to a chinese (race or hereditary succession) would making it a chinese style.

    Saying that I trained for ten years in set style doesn't make it a lineage or a pedigree if I was the son of the instructor then it would be my pedigree to say that I have the lineage of that style.
    Lineage is not always hereditary.

    Idiot you need to go back to school.
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