Economically sustainable Judo

**babo78** · Posted On: 2/05/2009 3:06pm

I don't know too much about specifically regarding to running Judo dojo but I have trained at Tiger Schulmann's and they definitely know how to make money. Few lessons learned from TS MMA in marketing and what they focus on could be applied to running a Judo dojo. Bottom-line is to draw foot-traffic into dojo via focusing on kids, number of option for tuition choices, good solid marketing blitz.

Lessons Learned:
1. TS MMA have flexible tuition options in packages (like Oishi Judo and some others such as Performance Judo Academy)

2. TS MMA focuses heavily on children and the parents (TS MMA typically holds 6~7 classes per day and 4~5 of them are children's)

3. TS MMA have very good introductory marketing package

4. TS MMA classes offer variety to appeal to broader audience.

Lessons to apply to Judo dojo:
1. Offer two type of tuition
a) unlimited class option (the traditional unlimited per month)
b) flexible tuition option (ie: US $ 15 per class for 10 class, $ 10 per class for 50 class) that never expire and transferrable to family member who enroll with Judo Dojo

2. Have lot of emphasis on kids.
TS MMA focus heavily in kids for number of reasons. It draws in parents and spreads about ths school through word of mouth. Plus I've seen and met quite a large number of adult students who started in kids. More kids you have, larger your chances they stick. Also I've met parents who watched their kids enjoy training and reaping benefits then got into it themselves.

3. Draw in foot traffic by smart marketing products.
TS MMA runs the following promos every year (Please keep in mind the cost is based in NY metro prices so its not that expensive nor that cheap).

a) $ 99 starter package for first time students (1 month unlimited, free uniform)

b) On your birthday, they send you a Free training class to bring a buddy to (TS MMA provides loaner uniform). After class instructor offers them starter package (it might be less than than the normal starget cost)

c) Child saftey awareness: TS MMA instructor holds free seminar and asks the parents of their children class to ask and bring a friend parent/child. They also get involved with local police for more legitimacy. After child safety class, instructors offer them the starter package (cost may be less than the normal $ 99)

d) Bully awareness: same as promo for child safety except its for how to deal with bully

e) TS MMA Fitness Challenge: 90 day challenge to students and new-comers that if they attend X number of classes for 90 days, you will see fitness improvement. The number of classes isn't impossible but it is quite demanding. Improvement is based on body weight, body fat %, etc. at start of challenge and at the end. The people who improved the most receive special award/reward and people who met the goal get generic reward.

Reward being number of free classes (for flexible tuition) or month of class (unlimited) type. For example a first place winner receives like 100 extra free class (non-transferrable). The draw of it is that if they meet the challenge, they get better body and chance to win free classes. The benefit for school is, the x-number of classes that is required for the challenge is pretty rigirous so lot of people can't attend the x-number of classes (mainly adults). Also note that its 90-days challenge so students or new-comer would have to do this for 3 months straight.

**babo78** · Posted On: 2/05/2009 3:16pm

4. Offer variety.
TS MMA have offer large variety of classes which caters to wider audience. They have kick box (sparring), core class (technique and core muscle workout), grappling (standup & ground). This draws in different crowd, I've seen and trained with certain people who always come to core but not to others while some always came to kick box but never grappling or vice versa. Judo could do this by...

a) No-Gi Night
b) Newaza Night
c) Tachi-waza Night
d) Regular night (traditional training)
e) Monthly clinic on focus topic (ie: submission, sub-defense, no-gi variations, etc.)
f) MMA Night (if the dojo or school isn't purely Judo)

For example, a BJJer may be more motivated to come to tachi-waza night while MMA fanboys want to come to No-gi or mma night. Maybe some Judoka want to try no-gi because its new and no-gi is something new to learn or maybe even MMA night to train in some Judo techniques not allowed in judo tournie like kani basami, neck cranks, or attacking legs (ankle/leg locks).

There is a concern which is what if one person just focuses on one thing too much? Solution to that is in TS MMA, instructor will not promote a student who they believe is unbalance (ie: too much kick box and no grappling) to higher rank belt.

**FictionPimp** · Posted On: 2/05/2009 3:24pm

I've noticed it's hard to recruit people who know how useful judo is, let alone people who don't know anything about it.

Our bjj club has judo classes two days a week. I teach on thursdays and my teacher teaches on saturdays. It started off big, but it was hard to keep guys into it. They seem to think they can learn a throw and be done with it. Right now we get 3 - 4 students showing up. It's almost not worth it.

If I didn't need the practice (try to get my shodan) I would probably stop teaching the class on thursdays and take a day off.

I've always been more than willing to pay for good judo. In fact if I could find a judo club that was good (a strong focus on standup and ground work) I would probably quit bjj. I love judo, but I hate most of the clubs I visit.

My choices in judo right now is the YMCA with a GREAT teacher, but with almost no students and defiantly no one consistent enough to use as a kata partner, a place about 40 minutes from me that has yet to work me up into a sweat, or driving over an hour to a good club with lots of members but with a very competition focus.

I visisted the Tokan judo club in chicago about a year ago, if that club was in my town I'd gladly pay 100.00 a month to train there. They not only kicked my ass, they did it in the warmups, the standup, the ground, and even the cooldown.

It was the most fun I ever had training.

***jnp*** · Posted On: 2/14/2009 3:22pm

Go here to find your posts The_Bear:

Looking for Judo in Bergen County, NJ - No BS Martial Arts

Do not post in this forum again until you understand the rules.

DHS moderator.

**vladoshi** · Posted On: 4/04/2009 8:34am

Judos strength is that it is not an expensive, for profit MA and therefore is the third most played sport in the world. Its run like a sport club in the rest of the world. Its only the Mcdojos around here that include judo with their MMA styles that charge that much. Instead of expensive fees per lesson, its a reasonable ($200 here) for one year subs fee (as we call it in Australia). Thats for the club in my home town that can boast olympians. But then, they want as many people playing judo as possible. I always thought this situation was because to increase rank above a low dan black belt, you have to train others, run comps and take care of sports wide administration. Hence my sensei is a red and white belt.

From what little I have seen of those running dojos, even national and international success has never paid off. (Now, the extra curricular criminal behaviour definitely has benefitted some - what? Professionals of violence using it for personal gain! Obviously if I actually proved that I would not be long for this world). People who pay big want big results quick. I guess that only those willing to hand out belts left right and centre you will do well and if you dont, you will not.

**PimpDawg** · Posted On: 4/15/2009 11:42pm

I just started Judo after 1 year of BJJ. Here's what I would change. Instead of breakfalls over and over again, change things up by having newbies do groundwork until they learn how to fall. Then gradually introduce them to more throwing as they learn how to fall. This way the classes are more interesting to people who can't be thrown and people are more likely to stick around. People need to learn how to fall (my injuries are proof of that), but it doesn't mean they can't do something competitive grappling on the ground.

**Blue Negation** · Posted On: 4/16/2009 9:17am

Originally Posted by PimpDawg

I just started Judo after 1 year of BJJ. Here's what I would change. Instead of breakfalls over and over again, change things up by having newbies do groundwork until they learn how to fall. Then gradually introduce them to more throwing as they learn how to fall. This way the classes are more interesting to people who can't be thrown and people are more likely to stick around. People need to learn how to fall (my injuries are proof of that), but it doesn't mean they can't do something competitive grappling on the ground.

This is how my Judo club operates (also is 50/50 newaza/tachiwaza). Beginners get something to do while getting their ukemi up to par and get some personal instruction in newaza from the more senior students and yudansha while doing so.

They still have trouble keeping new people, though. I think Judo is just too hard on the body. I still ache after practice whenever I have to take a week off and come back. For people who aren't already involved in BJJ, wrestling, or at least a contact striking art, the repeated impacts+aches+pain+being crushed in pins+strained muscles from inevitably trying to muscle things through as a newb and so forth... I can imagine that it seems overwhelming.

I think too many people come to Judo expecting TV-esque "martial arts".

I would guess that having a separate, lower-intensity "beginner's class" to build up endurance, pain tolerance, focus on ukemi, and specific instruction on newaza basics and the first set of the gokyo would be helpful to student retention. My BJJ gym has a beginner/basics class that students are encouraged to remain in for at least a few weeks, and it works wonders in retention.

**JavaRonin** · Posted On: 4/16/2009 3:16pm

Maybe I'm in a minority, but what I find attractive about this sport is that it's NOT trendy and not t3h latest F4D. I would consider that being part of a MA that doesn't hand out black belts with those fries is a net positive, not a negative.

**kikoolol** · Posted On: 5/21/2009 2:28pm

Before talking about marketing maybe Judo clubs should make people know they exist first.

I knew about my current dojo by visiting Judo-Québec's page, contacting the instructor at home and asking the address.

We now have a website ('bout time) but I can't see how someone who just wants to do a MA won't stumble upon the ultra-marketed McDojos first. I've received flyers for Villari's before.

**1point2** · Posted On: 5/21/2009 2:44pm

Originally Posted by kikoolol

Before talking about marketing maybe Judo clubs should make people know they exist first.

I knew about my current dojo by visiting Judo-Québec's page, contacting the instructor at home and asking the address.

We now have a website ('bout time) but I can't see how someone who just wants to do a MA won't stumble upon the ultra-marketed McDojos first. I've received flyers for Villari's before.

I agree, some basic marketing is truly lacking. My judo dojo has been there for thirty years, does not advertise at all, and has no marks on the outside of the building. My sempai went to a tournament in the city that was similar, and that was some sort of national training center with an ex-Olympian. WTF?

One concern is that we need to make sure that once a school starts advertising and marketing, they know how to deal with the growth both practically and ethically.