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  1. 100xobm is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/16/2009 5:20pm


     Style: BJJ, formerly Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    seconded about the kids classes thing.

    There's a major judo club near ours with a full time judo instructor, he's a rokudan. His methodology is basically to set up judo programs once a week at five different schools. From 3.30 til 4.30 pm. Most of which (if it's like our juniors) actually consists of dodgeball and bullrush, because children get bored.

    Charges $60 a week for the entire school term per child (roughly ten weeks).

    * 4 school terms = $240 per annum per child.

    $240 * 15 kids (a very rough estimate, usually more) = $3,600 a year

    * 5 days a week = $18,000

    _______________________________________

    Now that's only kids classes.
    After this, he has a regular kids class at his hombu dojo (I think that's an Aikido term, I'm not sure if I'm using it right) at least three times a week.
    These kids get charged $100 (because they're attending multiple classes)

    20 kids * $100 * 4 terms = $8000

    This totals $26,000 a year thus far. After this there's the senior class. Same math

    20 adults * $100 * 4 terms = $8000 (varies depending on Instructors dan and competitive results I guess, marketing through ability)

    = $32,000 a year. Nothing great but it's sustainable.

    Startup costs are
    - mats, which, as you'd all know better than I, are apparently fucking expensive. And getting the class size up would take time.

    - loaner gi's, not that expensive but they'll add up, two in every size. More for kids sizes.

    However, on the other hand, though the kids fluctuate and drop off, the ones that stay just add to your seniors pool and are a steady income.

    Those are only at subsistence prices. You probably couldn't charge the kids much more, but grownups you could bump the cost up. Furthermore, No-Gi and MMA would boost income markedly. A BJJ club near me has a differen't adult system where it's $10 per class or $100 for twelve classes. Which is reasonable, and has the potential to earn more. But longer term investments inspire a commitment, so it's a tradeoff.

    ::EDIT::

    I forgot to add, advertising through universities is a pretty potent means of doing things. There's a Kosen club (they still exist apparently) which is one of the biggest in NZ which is essentially a uni club. Great way to get seniors, especially considering some lifetime judoka have moved away from home and are looking for a way to start it up again.

    I imagine it'd be easier for Sambo to market itself as judo at that stage. Judo's got global name recognition. And if you start kids early, the parents don't realise just how violent it is.

    As a former online salesman, I'd like to add:

    - Make a damn website. Spend $1,000 and you can get a semi respectable one.

    - Google Optimization. Otherwise no one will find your site.

    - Google Adwords. You pay **** all per click, and as soon as one click results in a person paying fees, you've made your money back. Some friends of mine running their own company say they make eight dollars for every one dollar spent on adwords.

    Everything's done through the net these days.

    Also, my personal thoughts on the matter is that if you were capable, call yourself Jujitsu, and wear black gi's. It makes it harder for (judo) competition as you need white/blue gis. But people are impressed by badassery, and black gi's do that in spades. Though it's kind of underhanded, most people start MA's as Larpers
    Last edited by 100xobm; 1/16/2009 5:39pm at .
  2. DCS is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/16/2009 11:16pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 柔道

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm with honesty, and include elementary school kids.

    Look, about 1300 elementary school judo players from a single spanish province with less 1.000.000 population.

    YouTube - XVI Festa do Judo Infantil. Trofeo Mestre de Frutos

    Enough of them will continue training when older making Judo clubs, if not profitable, at least sustainable.
  3. theotherserge is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/17/2009 2:22am

    Join us... or die
     Style: sambo/crossfit

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    a brilliant Judoka/Coach near me thrives on kids classes. He smiles as he tosses the little ones around, "I teach kids because my victory is assured!"

    srsly, I'd happily do kids classes. I have a little one and I have always liked their attitude vs. adults (dumbass) atitudes. They're the future and all that...
    Many things we do naturally become difficult only when we try to make them intellectual subjects. It is possible to know so much about a subject that you become totally ignorant.
    -Mentat Text Two (dicto)
  4. M.C. is offline
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    This is all I do: girls, photography and BJJ...

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    Posted On:
    1/17/2009 6:22am

    Join us... or die
     Style: KeyboardHero/CameraJutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah, what did we learn from "Unleashed" - "You have to get them when they are young!"

    What worked good for my old club was to have a 5 week course (twice a week) for super low/next to nothing cost, best during holidays or something so parents want their kids somewhere "save".
    Usually 3 out of 10 would sign up. And one out of those 3 would stay for more than a year.
    The best part in Germany is those things get partial federal sponsorship.
    Also offering Judo as a "alternative" sports class for High school (I know it is a bit of a hassle here in Germany to manage that) is good. You have to get certified (guess you have no problem with your creds) and then work something out with the school about the syllabus but after that a lot of the kids will sign up (pay the little mat fee) and some get hooked up and will stay.
    Sometimes you lose and sometimes the other guy wins.

    At this point I don't owe anybody an explenation.

    Schools I trained at:
    Lotus Club Cetepe Liberdade Sao Paulo
    Renzo Gracie NYC
    New York Combat Sambo
  5. Mtripp is offline
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    Choked out by Gene Lebell

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    Posted On:
    1/17/2009 7:50am

    supporting member
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well.....

    Kwon is out of Germany. Their US store is in Grand Rapids. At one time, (we in the US being idiots did not jump on this so I don't think they sell them any more) they imported the smartest idea ever.

    Over there, (Europe) Judo is bigger for kids. They make a special kids gi. It is not like a normal judogi. It is just plain duct canvas, unbleached and unshrunk, cut and sewed like judogi. Why? Because the wholesale cost for 0000 to 2 (sizes run larger) was about 9 bucks each.

    You can put the kids in AAU with real insurance, for $10 a year. So for under $20 you can put them in a gi and insure them.
  6. Urban Achiever is offline
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    Lightweight

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    Posted On:
    1/17/2009 1:51pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The Judo dojo near me charges 30.00 per month. The BJJ school charges 70-130 a month depending on how much you go. The BJJ instructor is outstanding, however, the Judo is more cost effective.
  7. theotherserge is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/17/2009 2:21pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: sambo/crossfit

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    there's a good thread in the Bignut's reviewing a small dojo, big profits.
    Many things we do naturally become difficult only when we try to make them intellectual subjects. It is possible to know so much about a subject that you become totally ignorant.
    -Mentat Text Two (dicto)
  8. 100xobm is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/17/2009 4:17pm


     Style: BJJ, formerly Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I need some Coaching Tips - No BS Martial Arts

    The second post, by Das Moose talks about another important factor, making stuff fun. It's not completely relevant as it's more related to coaching, but it highlights the impact of an informal environment. Leading to more positive experiences etc., which can therefore lead to people more inclined to stay. It's coaching 101 I guess, but still a good read.
  9. Kokujin is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/20/2009 8:27am


     Style: BJJ(blue)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I pay 30euros for bjj classes (every day of the week, plus open mat) plus full acess to the gym. Yeah, it's the ****!

    For 20 euros plus I get to learn judo with one of the best College judo teams around. So, for 50euros (64dollars) I'm in a dream state....the problem is that there isn't that many hours in a day to acomodate work, College, girlfriend, family, bjj and judo! But I will survive!

    BJJ is just not economically viable in Portugal, first because it's our dirty little secret, with "little" being the key word here. 5 or 6 big teams, but not so many people interested in rolling around with sweaty men! (if I won 5euros for every time I heard this one...)
    So, it's not a matter of undercharging, the problem is way deeper...people just prefere to kick and punch, be ninjas, Ryu's and Kens or Steven Seagal and ****.
  10. Gustard is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/03/2009 7:18pm


     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I trained with 8th Dan Kodokan Akinori Hosaka in the UK 3 times a week. He only charged $40 (24 pounds) a month. He is the highest ranking Kodokan grade in the UK.
    Its been said many times - theres no money in Judo.
    If Judo gets trendy then my mat fees go up - yikes !
    There are however some in the UK who do make money out of Judo - like the head of the BJA who is not even a Judo player and constantly devises new ways to get money out of Judoka.
    Last edited by Gustard; 2/03/2009 7:21pm at .
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