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  1. sochin101 is offline
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    Graviora Manent

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    Posted On:
    1/15/2009 1:53pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: No gym currently.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jnp

    Maybe we need a "How to better market Judo" thread...

    Thread is for discussion of running an economically sustainable Judo dojo and the financial and cultural obstacles that stand in the way of doing so.
    Maybe we should start by not informing every noob who posts in Newbietown"which art should I take?" that judo is (all together now) "cheap and widely available".

    I think that judo shouldn't be represented as a bargain-basement second-best to BJJ. Maybe that perception is affecting the marketability of judo.

    I agree that judo should definitely be recommended as an art to newbs, but there is so much more to commend it than just "cheap and easy to get".
    Where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence.

    Gandhi

  2. Michael23 is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/15/2009 1:55pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ignatzami
    Also, as a techie myself.

    Judo schools tend to have little to no web presence. They tend to be damnably near impossible to find.
    Ah, good point, and no kidding. My club just recently got a website after contiguous operation since the mid-70s. It's an absolutely dreadful looking website, but at least it can be found now. The only way I originally found the club was by searching the USJA page by state and finding the instructor's home phone number.
  3. Snake Plissken is offline
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    When I Get Back

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    Posted On:
    1/15/2009 2:04pm

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by sochin101
    Maybe we should start by not informing every noob who posts in Newbietown"which art should I take?" that judo is (all together now) "cheap and widely available".

    I think that judo shouldn't be represented as a bargain-basement second-best to BJJ. Maybe that perception is affecting the marketability of judo.

    I agree that judo should definitely be recommended as an art to newbs, but there is so much more to commend it than just "cheap and easy to get".
    LOL don't let them in our secret. Next they will be discussing Plasma TVs.

    I was debating this, as it is a discussion point between Sochin and I often have.

    I found out recently that my dad took Judo as a younger man and it just blew my mind. He was a football player and boxing fan....what the **** was HE doing training in a martial art???

    Really, people stepping in to the gym/studio/dojo/dojang/kwoon have different fears. Some don't want to get hit in the face.

    Perhaps the wording could be "it is a good beginner art that allows as steep a learning curve as you like that has a strong, long-standing root in the US."

    Work up a nice tidy respectful discussion point of Judo and who it would be good for and what the core tenant of Judo is: The Gentle Art.

    For crying out loud, the most manly of all US Presidents, Teddy Roosevelt BUILT A DOJO AT THE WHITEHOUSE SO HE COULD PLAY JUDO!
  4. foxd is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/15/2009 2:05pm


     Style: BJJ, mma

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ignatzami
    Also, Colleges will usually pay decently for martial arts instruction and especially at tech schools Japanophilia means that any Japanese martial art garners a huge amount of attention.

    Judo fits in to this perfectly.
    ^this

    Maybe if I get a club started I can hit the anime club in hopes they see it as a cultural opportunity.
  5. HappyOldGuy is offline
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    Slipping coal into stockings with a little sumptin for mom.

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    Posted On:
    1/15/2009 2:25pm


     Style: Rehab Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm hesitant to be the one who brings this up. Since I'm a semi newb who actually pays for his judo (it's offered as an "elective" at the MMA gym I train at). But AFAIK the notion of Judo as a "not for profit" enterprise is pretty intentional on the part of one Jigaro Kano. I'm not saying it's the right approach here and now, but it does seem pretty embedded into the whole culture.

    Also, my coaches and others, maybe including Josh? are making (some) money by teaming up with striking and/or BJJ teachers to open MMA gyms.
  6. Ming Loyalist is offline
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    solves problems with violence

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    Posted On:
    1/15/2009 2:37pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, Hung Family Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    oishi-sensei in new york city has been running a highly successful dojo for years. he charges a LOT of money (last time i heard it was $25/class unless you paid for a whole year and even then the price didn't come down much.) part of this is due to location, as he is in one of the most expensive areas in manhattan.

    the fact that he's 7th dan from the kodokan and also was a wrestling champ in japan doesn't hurt, but i think it should be shown that running a sustainable judo dojo can be done.

    not to sound like a big-city elitist, but could part of the problem be location?
    "Face punches are an essential character building part of a martial art. You don't truly love your children unless you allow them to get punched in the face." - chi-conspiricy
    "When I was a little boy, I had a sailor suit, but it didn't mean I was in the Navy." - Mtripp on the subject of a 5 year old karate black belt
    "Without actual qualifications to be a Zen teacher, your instructor is just another roundeye raping Asian culture for a buck." - Errant108
    "Seriously, who gives a **** what you or Errant think? You're Asian males, everyone just ignores you, unless you're in a krotty movie." - new2bjj
  7. Coach Josh is offline
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    Silent Guardian

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    Posted On:
    1/15/2009 2:41pm

    Business Class Supporting Member
     Gladiators Academy Lafayette, LA Style: Judo, MMA, White Trash JJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks this is the kind of discussion that is needed. I can tell you right now Judo will not change. The people teaching Judo will not change. The schools will not change and the methodology will not change.

    I have found that out over the past 5 years trying to make a viable club. I have my son and one guy that have been with me since I started out on my own. He is a good friend now and doesn't pay a cent to train. This is one problem that I have I don't like taking money from my friends. Training as much as we do that's what we become.

    This best thing that you can do to market Judo is get into an MMA/BJJ club and have them pay you. Take the gi off and teach Judo with no gi. Teach classes at the gym devoted to Judo to supplement their BJJ. Take them to tournaments and get them involved in the scene.

    Teaching just Judo these days isn't going to cut it. If Tim had not opened Gladiators this year I was going to open a full time gym and make a run at it. Fortunately for me the gym opened and I have a place to teach and people to train. I am not in charge of book keeping so its a great fit. I wasn't going to teach just Judo and I was going to do contracts and electronic withdrawal. These 2 things are needed in order for you to maintain your school.

    I have had a value assessment done by a friend of mine. Basically I am worth about $80 an hour if I was a personal trainer. I make a quarter of that at my real job and a tenth of that when I teach martial arts. Lloyd Irvin and Radi Ferguson have the right idea when it comes to marketing and making people pay. They are looked down upon by some of the Judo community because of that. Personally I am looking at them to follow when it comes to business.

    Judo at one time was progressive and innovative. The coaches were some of the best people on the planet. In the 70s US Judo started to fall and has not recovered since then. Only through MMA has Judo had a recent influx of interest. The problem is that Judo is no longer progressive. It is stagnant and unyielding now. Very few people are reaching across the spectrum, Camirillo and Ferguson are the two better known and one day me.
    Judo is only gentle for the guy on top.
  8. KO'd N DOA is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/15/2009 2:54pm


     Style: Judo Sandbagger

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Tripp
    Well... there would still be a few problems to overcome. Like a location, mats, etc.
    The experiance with Judo that I saw, was that it was most of the time clubs are attached to the YMCA, a recreation/community center or a school, where there was great competition for space and peak times.

    How do you compete with Aerobics, Pilates or TKD or Jazzercise? Taping mats is hard work and you lose off of the hour by doing it every class. Plus you get bumped for weddings and exams.

    Perhaps it is what the notion that the term 'club' brings.
  9. Goju - Joe is offline
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    I am a Ninja bitches!! Deal with it

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    Posted On:
    1/15/2009 3:11pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Improv comedy

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Coach Josh
    This best thing that you can do to market Judo is get into an MMA/BJJ club and have them pay you. Take the gi off and teach Judo with no gi. Teach classes at the gym devoted to Judo to supplement their BJJ. Take them to tournaments and get them involved in the scene.

    Teaching just Judo these days isn't going to cut it. .

    I am going to slightly disagree in that I don't think you need to take the gi off.

    There's alot of people like me who tried the MMA training thing (for a bit) and decided I liked the gi based BJJ competition the best and as such Judo gi training works just fine.


    The only issue judo needs to address is the higher % of injury ever since I got my sternum cracked from the stupid no-gi tai otoshi variation a year ago I have been a scardy cat but flopping guard pulling wimp.

    Judo to be relevant in todays BJJ obsessed area needs more Newaza which is closer to pre Olympic judo anyways

    And Also I believe Mr. Tripp Trained Dan Sveren for his second UFC so he has MMA and UFC training experience.

    How in the hell there isn't a local MMA BJJ club that doesn't offer him a contract or something is bizarre.

    Again maybe it's location for him.
  10. joecos is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/15/2009 3:26pm


     Style: Karate, BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    One way I have seen Judo be viable is by sharing space with other schools/styles. These guys near me have been surviving for a long time with this approach.
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