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  1. M.C. is offline
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    This is all I do: girls, photography and BJJ...

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    Posted On:
    1/13/2009 8:45pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: KeyboardHero/CameraJutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Question regarding rounds

    Since I am not that into firearms (after reading this sub-forum I gathered a few bits and pieces though) I wonder, with how many types of ammunition you end up?
    For instance if you own an AR, a handgun and a shot gun you are already up to three different types.
    Is there a type of round that can be used in an AR(5.56 from what I gather)/AK(7.62 right?) and handgun, having good "impact power" (I hope that is the proper term) and maybe even being cheap?
    Not that I would get a gun and if so could get one (not even talking about an AR/AK), call it general curiosity. :cat:
    Sometimes you lose and sometimes the other guy wins.

    At this point I don't owe anybody an explenation.

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  2. hapkido_keith is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/13/2009 9:23pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4n4l
    Is there a type of round that can be used in an AR(5.56 from what I gather)/AK(7.62 right?) and handgun, having good "impact power" (I hope that is the proper term) and maybe even being cheap?
    Short answer: no

    Even the mid-sized rounds used by AR's are just to big to be fired from a handgun sized platform. The rounds are physically too big to fit in a magazine that gets inserted into the grip like a standard semi auto. If you make a separate magazine port in front of the grip the weapon becomes too big and looses the advantages of a pistol (ease of carry, concealment, handling in tight quarters). You theoretically could make some kind of super revolver, but it would have limited ammo capacity and the accuracy would suck with such a short barrel. Increase barrel length and again you loose the advantages of a pistol. On top of all of this, the high power of an AR round, even the 5.56mm/.223 which is considered a small round by rifle standards, would make shooting such a pistol problematic for all but the strongest shooters.

    There are several models of long arms that fire pistol sized rounds. The rounds do enjoy a bit more range and accuracy from the longer barrel, but are still too underpowered to serve effectively in the role of a tactical rifle. Bonnie and Clyde did not use the Thompson sub-machinegun, which fires the .45 ACP pistol round, because it could not punch through even the thin metal of a car door, where a sawed-off browning automatic rifle could. Even the big magnum pistol rounds like the .44 just won't have the long range punch to be effective as a rifle cartridge.
  3. pontoon is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/13/2009 10:57pm


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    Doesn't kel-tec make a number of 5.56mm pistols?
  4. chemistry is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/15/2009 1:27pm


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There are several manufacturers who put out 5.56 mm / .223 Remington handguns. Olympic Arms, Kel Tec, and Bushmaster are three that I can think of right away.

    These pistols are, as expected, much larger than ordinary pistols, and aren't going to be concealed carry material, which really negates much of the advantage of a pistol in the first place (easier concealability, less bulk).

    5.56 mm rounds coming out of a rifle are effective as manstoppers, due to the fact that the bullet can fragment in soft tissue. This takes a good bit of velocity (3000+ fps). When you fire that same round from a pistol, the shorter barrel is going to result in losing a good bit of velocity, and you're going to end up with something that will simply punch a 0.224" hole in the bad guy, and exit his body as a 0.224" hole.


    That being said, there are handguns that can chamber and fire much more powerful rifle cartridges, but for the most part, these are single shot weapons the likes of the Lone Eagle.
  5. chemistry is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/15/2009 1:35pm


     Style: Shotokan

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    Quote Originally Posted by hapkido_keith
    effectively in the role of a tactical rifle. Bonnie and Clyde did not use the Thompson sub-machinegun, which fires the .45 ACP pistol round, because it could not punch through even the thin metal of a car door, where a sawed-off browning automatic rifle could.
    Indeed! When I first read about the Bonnie and Clyde stories, I was surprised at how a small woman the likes of Bonnie Parker, could easily control the full power of a BAR.

    On another note, vehicles from that time era, for certain, used much thicker metal.

    The sheet metal used in today's vehicles will not stop any respectable centerfire handgun round (.32 ACP and above), unless the bullet happens to hit one of the support beams.
  6. JRT6 is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/15/2009 2:22pm


     Style: BJJ, Boxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by chemistry
    Indeed! When I first read about the Bonnie and Clyde stories, I was surprised at how a small woman the likes of Bonnie Parker, could easily control the full power of a BAR.

    On another note, vehicles from that time era, for certain, used much thicker metal.

    The sheet metal used in today's vehicles will not stop any respectable centerfire handgun round (.32 ACP and above), unless the bullet happens to hit one of the support beams.

    We have shot up cars and have found the doors and seats (particularly the headrest) to do quite well in stopping almost all common handgun bullets. The engine compartment and windshield goes without saying. The trunk area offers the least protection.

    .223 shot out of short barrels, less than 16in, have less ballistic power than 9mm.
  7. Wounded Ronin is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/16/2009 12:01am

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     Style: German longsword, .45 ACP

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    OP: What about getting a FN Five SeveN and a P90? My understanding is they accept the same cartridge.
    “nobody shoots anybody in the face unless you’re a hit man or a video gamer.” - Jack Thompson
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  8. Don Gwinn is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/16/2009 12:55am

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     Style: Guns

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    True. The catch is that, as you might expect, that round is a compromise.

    Classic handgun/rifle/carbine combinations that share ammunition:

    9mm AR15/Any 9mm handgun

    Hi-Point carbine/Hi-Point handgun (Cheap and fugly, but apparently they work.)

    .357 or .44 Magnum lever action carbine (Marlin, for example) with any revolver in those calibers.

    Beretta "Storm" model carbines and handguns--share magazines, too.

    Ruger makes pistol-caliber carbines that accept the magazines for their P-Series pistols.

    For many years, it has been rumored throughout the land that GLOCK would produce a carbine built to accept GLOCK handgun magazines "next year." Like Cub fans, GLOCK fans seem incapable of counting up the number of years that have passed since they began expecting this development "next year."

    I'm sure somebody can add ten things I forgot, but there's a starter list for you.
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  9. hungryjoe is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/16/2009 1:04am

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    [quote=hapkido_keith]Short answer: no

    Even the mid-sized rounds used by AR's are just to big to be fired from a handgun sized platform. quote]

    Just to be a dick, I'm going to mention my Thompson pistol with interchangeable barrels in .22kHornet, 45 Long Colt/.410, 30/30 and 45/70.

    Single shots and not natural, but a whole lot of fun.

    OP - go with what you can at the moment. Soon you will become gun crazy and can get what ever your heart (or wife if married) will allow.

    I will now go back and read the writings in the body of this thread and apologise if needed.
  10. hungryjoe is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/16/2009 1:10am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Recommended ammo for rifle/pistol:

    9mm
    .44 (better)
    .45

    Better yet - forgo the one size fits all and go with 12 gauge shotgun, .357, .40 or .45 pistol and .223 or .308 rifle. Ammo is readily available for all of these.

    Would you do finishing carpentrey with a framing hammer?
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