This is where you should have stopped.
TKD seems to me to take a lot more **** then it deserves by most people around here. I am looking at the Olympic style TKD here, which I have never done, and comparing it to Judo, which I have also never done.
I still remember my instructor telling me "judo is pretty good, but it's only a sport" when i was doing tkd in school. The grand irony of this was that he was a teaching us a watered down version of olympic sparring, where head kicks and all punching was banned.
So you have never commented on a style you have not trained in?
This is where you should have stopped.
:laughing7 Very true, and I completely understand railing on the McDojoism in TKD. I still think that is more of an issue of greedy instructors and not the style itself.
Originally Posted by jnp
If you don't mind elaborating some, it would be great. That is the reason for this thread, to have what seems to me an inconsistent bias explained by people with relevant experience. Or not explained, but it seems it will be.
I can honestly and without a doubt tell you that the two are vastly different when it comes to application outside of the sport. I have BB in both and its apples and oranges when it comes to the technical and tactical application of the 2.
I've commented on styles I've never trained before. Example Wing Chun is ghey. X isn't as good as BJJ (X being all other MAs). I've just never created a thread comparing two MA I've never trained.
I am just drawing a parallel, not comparing which is better. Plus I am sure deep down you want to make both a 'wing chun is teh ghey' and a 'Is BJJ great, or the greatest?' thread, but they have been done already.
So I typed that earlier post for nothing?
Originally Posted by FriendlyFire
What is inconsistent?
TKD has good kicks. No knees, but good kicks.
The hands/elbows part of the game was dropped for the most part for sport. Your mileage will vary if the instructor/style is actually more concerned with the SD other than sport aspect.
Your original post was a request for comparison of the two.
Personally, I like judo at this point, but then again it's due to having a 13 year old daughter thats nuts about ground work. I'd been out of judo for years, but really glad to be back.
Do I wish I'd never done TKD? No. It was a good addition to an overall tool box.
I wish I'd taken up judo earlier, when my body was still whole.
But then again, I also spent years in aikido, so why listen to me?
note - the years of aikido have also served the overall game well
Look at the training, look at the competition. There is your answer. Judo, even with it's restrictive competition ruleset, is still very much a fully resisting, pressure tested martial art. Think boxing. Yeah, the ruleset is restrictive, but that doesn't mean that they are not out there hitting each other with intent. Now look at TKD, the ruleset is restrictive so much that the MA itself has limited effectiveness. Look at the strikes in TKD vs the throws in Judo.
Again, one word can answer it, and that's intent. In Judo, there is intent to take the other person down. In TKD, there is no intent to debilitate the other person with a strike, only to make contact to score points. That would be like people getting points in Judo just to "attempt" to take the person down. If Judo turned to that, then you would see people not winning via throws and takedowns, but by attempts. THEN Judo would be like TKD.
Originally Posted by Coach Josh
(Also, film it and post it on YouTube!)
Originally Posted by Emevas
FF, you're on the north shore, right? You have judo south and west of you. New Orleans Judo Academy on Burgundy and Marigny, I am sure can show you judo as can Coach Josh at Gladiators in Lafayette or you could just go up to Baton Rouge and check out the LSU judo club. I can't speak to anything other than what I know of Josh whose technique and abilities seem more than solid enough to produce good students and Theron Larroquette's rank implies a lot for his ability.
As for TKD, Mandeville Karate Training Center has a 7th degree black belt and I am sure he could shed some light on it. Seriously man, there are like 5 TKD schools within 15 miles of that town.
Maybe these are some options you can look at that might help you to form an informed opinion about them if this is something that truly interests you.
Last edited by Naszir; 1/05/2009 12:03am at .
Reason: correction on locations
The competition format of the two arts are completely different in mindset.
Although in olympic highlight tkd reels you'll see some knockouts, olympic style tkd focuses on scoring points through hitting the other person in certain targets, no matter how hard, with kicks. considering the amount of kicks thrown, a couple of knockouts is a very small percentage.
This focus on points has made olympic TKD completely neglect combat efficiency in their competition, as punches don't score, noone uses punches. Hands down with no protection/side stance allows for faster kicks, but would lead in them getting punched in the face or lowkicked to death. Faster weak kicks score, so why bother training to kick with power?
Judo Highlight Reels show all of the big slams, yes, but even the throws that don't score Ippon would serve their purpose in a real fight, which is to take the guy down. The competition awards what would ideally be a fight ending or very strong throw that would give you the advantage given a real fight.
Although there are limits to this, in that the groundwork sometimes encourages turtling (people take the back) and throwing without regard to position after completing the throw, but Judo simulates the standup grappling and ground grappling portion of a fight, and competition shows that the athletes can achieve what their goal. To end the fight via a throw, a submission, or a pin that would allow them control over their opponent in a real confrontation.
Its competition format does detract in some areas from the realism and applicability to non-judo confrontations, however, it is set up to train aspects that would be helpful in a real fight.
Olympic TKD Competition
Encourages weak fast kicks, no punching, sideways stance, bouncing, hands down, etc
Olympic Judo Competition
Encourages strong, successful throws, effective pins and submissions, sometimes poor habits in transitioning from throw to ground, sometimes giving up the back, etc
Judo competition emphasizes a more realistic format that builds skills that aid in a fight, TKD not as much.
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