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  1. Lily is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/28/2008 5:24am

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     Style: No longer training

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Possible to 'widen' shoulders?

    Question 1: Are there any exercises that can 'widen' your shoulder width or am I getting this all backward and we can only increase the size of the muscles surrounding the shoulder? My shoulder width is 14 inches across and I'm thinking that's pretty crappy.

    I find during groundwork I'm most often on the bottom and with all the movement my shoulders get the brunt of it. Its starting to get painful especially with someone's weight on top of me and me at an elevated angle putting pressure on either shoulder.

    I have an old right shoulder injury that flares up once in a while, especially when doing overhead lifts (I'm reading the sticky for shoulder rehab!).

    Question 2: I've focused solely on strength training on lower body, chest and abs for the last 18 months. I haven't done much for my shoulders and worse, I can't generate much power from my shoulders as I've been able to compensate for this at jujitsu with other technique. Since I started judo, I realise I need to work more on my shoulder strength and ability to generate power from there. Any exercises that could help me here?


    Thanks :new_color
    "I'm reluctant to sound like a total fa66ot as well, but my background in sculpture gave me an edge in understanding how we're expected to move thru space." - The Other Other Serge
  2. pontoon is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/28/2008 6:13am


     Style: Judo

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  3. codo3500 is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/28/2008 6:38am


     Style: BJJ/Muay Thai (MMA)

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    From doing arnold press's my shoulders seemed to have widened, but i've just turned 21, so im finishing up my development, so it may have happened on its own anyway i guess lol.
  4. Sakmongkol is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/28/2008 9:23am


     Style: Muay Thai

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Learn to bench and overhead press properly. Perform these movements, 5x5 is a pretty good rep/set range, aim to be progressive with your poundages.

    Perform Bent over Rows and Chins to ensure no muscular imbalances and plenty of rear delt work (Facepulls, band pull aparts etc)

    When you've been doing this for some time maybe add some lateral raises, they work side delts the part of the shoulder that makes it appear wider.

    Once you get your OHP up to bodyweight your shoulders will seem infinitely wider, remember size always follows after the nueral gains made from strength, be consistent and patient.

    If you post your routine I'm pretty sure Russ/Emevas etc will be able to critique in a manner that will allow you to get in more shoulder work and eliminate any exercises that are currently exacerbating your shoulder problems.

    Plus: stop pushing in the bottom portion, I know its easier said than done but keep working on shrimping etc rather than trying to bench guys off you in side mount, its not going to work, especially if (I assume) you are giving up a lot of muscular bodyweight when rolling.
  5. Emevas is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/28/2008 12:41pm

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     Style: Boxing/Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There's something to be said about lat work increasing shoulder width, but for the most part it's gonna be genetic.

    You've only been training your chest and abs for your upper body? No back work? That could explain shoulder injury.
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
  6. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/28/2008 12:54pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas
    There's something to be said about lat work increasing shoulder width, but for the most part it's gonna be genetic.

    You've only been training your chest and abs for your upper body? No back work? That could explain shoulder injury.
    ^^^ This. No back/pull work is a good recipe to massacre the shoulders.

    Lily, in my experience, overhead presses, all variations, specially bradford presses, hit the shoulders better (and safer) than bench pressing alone. Combine that with lat work, and that's a good recipe for increasing shoulder size, but as Emevas said, genetics play a big role.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

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  7. TheRuss is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/28/2008 6:54pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Lily, I think that the question you've asked isn't actually the question you want answered. Shoulder width:
    -is mostly fixed (if you want longer clavicles, you'll need to take extreme measures)
    -is mostly cosmetic - and broad shoulders are traditionally a male trait

    Anyways, if your concern really is cosmetic, work on your posture. Stretch your pecs, strengthen your lats, stick your chest out... [dirty comments here]

    If you want more muscular shoulders (you won't get a whole lot of actual width), you'll want to work your deltoids.
    -I'll second the recommendations for overhead presses (dumbbell or barbell, whatever's handy), although my preference is to keep barbell work in front of, not behind, the head.
    -As Sakmongkol mentioned, various dumbbell raises (front and side) probably deserved a lot of the credit when my shoulders were bulky.

    If you want the "invisible barrel under each arm" look, you'll want to do some lat work - dips, chin-ups/pulldowns, etc.

    But generally speaking, the best plan is to pursue a well-rounded training program (with proper diet and rest) and let the cosmetic issues handle themselves.

    In terms of taking a beating on your shoulders, there are the old standbys:
    -Rehab your injuries
    -Correct your strength imbalances
    -Correct your inflexibilities
    -Ensure you're warm (yes, temperature-wise) and loose before exertion/impact

    Specifically, I'd hazard a guess that most people here would benefit from more external rotation work for their rotator cuffs. There are external rotation exercises with tubing, but I really like single-arm external rotations (second page, courtesy of this post).

    But something else that's worth considering is asking your coach whether there's a problem with your technique that's causing the shoulder pain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lily
    Question 2: I've focused solely on strength training on lower body, chest and abs for the last 18 months. I haven't done much for my shoulders and worse, I can't generate much power from my shoulders as I've been able to compensate for this at jujitsu with other technique. Since I started judo, I realise I need to work more on my shoulder strength and ability to generate power from there. Any exercises that could help me here?
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas
    Good rule of thumb is for every vertical pull, do a vert. push, and for every horizontal pull, do a horizontal push.
    Up, down, forward, backwards. That's basically what you need.
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
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  8. OZZ is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/28/2008 7:12pm

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     Style: Short Fist Boxing

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    On this same topic..when it comes to dumbell shoulder presses I find it very hard to get beyond a certain weight. Way back when I could only use 30's..I peaked with 50's and then got away from weight training for a while..now I am back and doing reps with 40's right now, but getting beyond that 40-50 lb range seems very difficult for some reason. I think the main reason is because I work out alone and without a spotter it is hard to really push myself with those exercises because the consequences of failing are too severe for me to really want to take a chance.
    Advice? I am focusing mainly on chest/back/shoulders this time around.
    " If one wants to have a friend one must also want to wage war for him: and to wage war one must be capable of being an enemy." - Fr. Nietzsche 'On The Friend' Thus Spake Zarathustra
  9. Emevas is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/28/2008 7:31pm

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     Style: Boxing/Wrestling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    How about a barbell instead?
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
  10. TheRuss is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/28/2008 7:43pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost of Christmas Past
    On this same topic..when it comes to dumbell shoulder presses I find it very hard to get beyond a certain weight. Way back when I could only use 30's..I peaked with 50's and then got away from weight training for a while..now I am back and doing reps with 40's right now, but getting beyond that 40-50 lb range seems very difficult for some reason. I think the main reason is because I work out alone and without a spotter it is hard to really push myself with those exercises because the consequences of failing are too severe for me to really want to take a chance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas
    How about a barbell instead?
    Or a spotter?

    I personally never thought of dumbbell shoulder press as being particularly dangerous. I wouldn't want to drop a dumbbell on my toe if I were doing them standing up, but that's about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost of Christmas Past
    I am focusing mainly on chest/back/shoulders this time around.
    Why's that?
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
    Downstreet on the flip-flop, timepants.
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