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  1. AeroChica is offline
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    Welterweight

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    Posted On:
    12/30/2008 5:51pm

    Business Class Supporting Member
     Jiu-Jitsu, Muay Thai, BJJ, Judo, MMA and Kids Jiu-Jitsu Style: Boxing, Mom-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyCache
    was expecting flame war with a poster called "winter"

    thread does not deliver.
    Taking on another poster? Pshaw! Small potatoes, my friend. My adversary is an entire fucking season!

    Winter in Canada - bigger than Lesnar, longer than Corey Hill's leg rehab, stronger than Emevas, but I'm still going to make it my bitch!
  2. Goju - Joe is offline
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    I am a Ninja bitches!! Deal with it

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    Posted On:
    12/30/2008 6:37pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Improv comedy

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    Winter pisses me off.

    I use my rage to full my heat.

    Especially when I reach the end of my driveway shoveling and the fucking plow comes and dumps a ton of compacted snow at the end.

    BASTARDS!!!!
  3. AeroChica is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/30/2008 10:39pm

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     Jiu-Jitsu, Muay Thai, BJJ, Judo, MMA and Kids Jiu-Jitsu Style: Boxing, Mom-Jitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by H TO THE IZZO
    I'd like to have a word with your "naturopath". Several words. Loud, angry, threatening words.
    Why? I thought IV Vitamin C was an accepted therapy for surgery recovery. It seemed a reasonable extension to try it to improve healing from injuries as well. The guy I see is a registered Naturopathic Doctor (a professional designation in Ontario) who compounded the vitamin blend specifically for CdnPaddy's state of heath and needs. We didn't find anything wierd or quackish about the therapy, except the part where it didn't actually do anything.
  4. Jack Rusher is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/30/2008 11:58pm


     Style: ti da shuai na

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Office Party Barbie
    I am aware that the 2000IU exceeds the recommended dosage, but it works for me so far and I haven't seen any ill effects.
    Good for you. The research looks quite positive on Vitamin D:
    Eight subjects received 100,000 I.U. of vitamin D and seven subjects received phototherapy. At the onset of treatment and after 1 month of therapy subjects were administered the Hamilton Depression scale, the SIGH-SAD, and the SAD-8 depression scale. All subjects receiving vitamin D improved in all outcome measures. The phototherapy group showed no significant change in depression scale measures.
    ... it appears to act on serotonin and melatonin synthesis.

    Regarding the dangers of megadosing, here's Wikipedia:

    Maximum endogenous production with full body exposure to sunlight is 250 µg (10,000 IU) per day. [ ... ] dosages up to 250 micrograms (10,000 IU) /day in healthy adults are believed to be safe. [ ... ] all known cases of vitamin D toxicity with hypercalcemia have involved intake of or over 1,000 micrograms (40,000 IU)/day.
    There's a growing body of evidence that the U.S. RDA (400 IU/day, just enough to prevent rickets) is an order of magnitude too low for winter. I started taking 3,000IU of Vitamin D this winter; it's treating me very, very well so far.

    Quote Originally Posted by H TO THE IZZO
    Note that milk's fortified with loads of Vitamin D.
    Consider the above as regards natural production in summer vs dosages in fortified foods.

    Quote Originally Posted by H TO THE IZZO
    A multivitamin is intended to compensate for micronutrient inadequacies in your daily diet. If your diet usually meets your micronutrient requirements, it probably won't do anything.
    QFT. I carry a multi when I travel in places where my food supply is unreliable, but they're otherwise bullshizzle.
    “Most people do not do, but take refuge in theory and talk, thinking that they will become good in this way” -- Aristotle, Nicomachean Ethics, II.4
  5. hungryjoe is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/31/2008 12:03am

    supporting member
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Take your multi and get your UV.

    It's for the long term, not the overnight.
  6. TheRuss is offline
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    is badder than you

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    Posted On:
    12/31/2008 12:05am

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    Quote Originally Posted by Office Party Barbie
    Why? I thought IV Vitamin C was an accepted therapy for surgery recovery. It seemed a reasonable extension to try it to improve healing from injuries as well.
    Vitamin C is administered at levels of 100-300mg/day to patients who are being fed parenterally. This is intended to meet their normal nutritional requirements, not therapeutically.

    If there is a generally-accepted protocol for administering therapeutic/pharmacological doses of Vitamin C post-operation, I am unaware of it.

    Intravenous administration is especially troublesome for two reasons:
    1) It circumvents the body's natural mechanism for regulating Vitamin C intake (diarrhea)
    2) My understanding is that a single administration of Vitamin C will only have a transient effect on serum levels (see this graph). There are time-released vitamin C tablets available, but causing a prolonged increase in serum levels via IV would require your husband to haul an IV tree around all day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Office Party Barbie
    The guy I see is a registered Naturopathic Doctor (a professional designation in Ontario)
    Naturopathic Doctors, despite the name and professional designation (I've got one too), are not medical doctors.

    There are no naturopathic doctors in Ontario who are licensed medical doctors.
    -Ontario Association of Naturopathic Doctors

    Quote Originally Posted by Office Party Barbie
    who compounded the vitamin blend specifically for CdnPaddy's state of heath and needs. We didn't find anything wierd or quackish about the therapy, except the part where it didn't actually do anything.
    If the naturopath drew blood, tested serum ascorbic acid levels, and found them to be significantly below 70 µmol/L, then I withdraw my objection. Otherwise, unless they had damn good reason to induce a short-lived spike in serum ascorbic acid levels, they should have scrapped the IV and sent you to the nearest Walmart.
    Last edited by TheRuss; 12/31/2008 12:10am at .
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
    Downstreet on the flip-flop, timepants.
  7. TheRuss is offline
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    is badder than you

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    Posted On:
    12/31/2008 12:22am

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    Re: Jack Skellington's post... agreed that Vitamin D is a reasonable intervention for SAD. The theory makes a lot of sense, and if nothing else, it's unlikely to do any harm. Oral Vitamin D sources/supplements are cheap, the body can readily inactivate excess amounts, and as you noted, the RDI is probably too low (given that I drink between two and four litres of fortified milk a day, I'm getting somewhere around your order of magnitude extra).

    I'm not sure how good the first study is - it's not blinded, and it's not controlled as tightly as I'd like (the phototherapy group may function as a rudimentary control, but that depends on the details of their treatment). I'm puzzling over what this means...

    Vitamin D status improved in both groups (74% vitamin D group, p < 0.005 and 36% phototherapy group, p < 0.01).
    ... and why the phototherapy group didn't show improvement despite it. Still, though, the theory makes a lot of sense.

    <nitpick>

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Skellington
    ... it appears to act on serotonin and melatonin synthesis.
    It should also be noted that "appears" isn't strictly true - this paper is describing a hypothesis - published in a journal named "Medical Hypotheses" - so it'd be more accurate to say that it's been hypothesized.

    </nitpick>
    Last edited by TheRuss; 12/31/2008 12:24am at .
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
    Downstreet on the flip-flop, timepants.
  8. CannibalCrowley is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/31/2008 1:46am


     Style: Starting Strength

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Don't forget to get some quality outdoors time in, even if you can only do it on the weekend. My wife was suffering the effects of SAD and the most effective thing for her was outdoor physical activity during the day. She's fine all winter as long as she takes her multi and I drag her out of the house once a week to go snowshoeing or cross country skiing.
  9. Jack Rusher is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/31/2008 10:16am


     Style: ti da shuai na

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    Quote Originally Posted by H TO THE IZZO
    nitpick
    Should have read "appears it may," my bad for posting past my bedtime.

    As for the first paper, a quick tour of PubMed will turn up much other work. The comment paper that got me on the D train was sent around by an MD/Phd friend earlier this year: Cod Liver Oil, Vitamin A Toxicity, Frequent Respiratory Infections, and the Vitamin D Deficiency Epidemic. It recommends that healthy children take 1,000 IU/day of vitamin D for every 25 pounds of body weight. In some cases this is more than ten times current recommendations.
    “Most people do not do, but take refuge in theory and talk, thinking that they will become good in this way” -- Aristotle, Nicomachean Ethics, II.4
  10. TheRuss is offline
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    is badder than you

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    Posted On:
    12/31/2008 12:26pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Skellington
    The comment paper that got me on the D train was sent around by an MD/Phd friend earlier this year: Cod Liver Oil, Vitamin A Toxicity, Frequent Respiratory Infections, and the Vitamin D Deficiency Epidemic. It recommends that healthy children take 1,000 IU/day of vitamin D for every 25 pounds of body weight. In some cases this is more than ten times current recommendations.
    That's a much better read - thanks for posting it. (Apparently I have a crush on you... awkward!)

    The bit about hypervitaminosis A masking vitamin D is especially bothersome... I've been trying to avoid overdosing on retinol, but it's hard when preformed retinol is added to milk and present in multivitamins. I don't see why they don't just stick with beta carotene in the multis - all the benefits without the risks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
    Downstreet on the flip-flop, timepants.
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