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  1. Hooded Justice is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/22/2008 3:57pm


     Style: Justice/Firearms

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    The effects of MA proliferation on gun violence.

    Ok, so this is something I've been kind of curious about for a while now. People sometimes try and draw the parallel between gun violence and gun glorification in the media and movies and the levels of gun violence in America. I am sure there is some correlation there but probably not exaclty as stated. I am wondering that with the big martial arts boom in the 70's and 80's due to the kung fu movie scene and now the resurgence of martial arts most likely from more movies and especially MMA, does the proliferation of martial arts in current media have any effect on gun violence levels in America?

    I suppose that there is no real conrete way to measure this but I was wondering if any LEOs around had any insight or anyone in general had any experiences or theories. Do you cops or maybe even bouncers run into more trouble makers with some sort of MA training more so than people with guns and other weapons when it seems martial arts are more prevelant in popular culture? Have you found that the aikido,jujutsu, judo restraint techniques you've been taught are not as usefull because more people are practicing those arts and are aware of how to escape them? Do you see more criminals choosing their fists and feet over guns because MA legally speaking carries less of a penalty when used as a weapon in a crime than an actual weapon does i.e, man trained in MT mugs someone as opposed to someone using a gun and getting that extra assault with deadly weapon charge?
  2. IMightBeWrong is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/22/2008 4:31pm


     Style: 9mm/Judo/BJJ/MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm no expert, but here's my input: The thing that makes criminals so dangerous is the fact that they think things through before committing a crime on most occasions. They aren't all the idiots we hear about on the news or see on TV that lock themselves out of their escape vehicles or leave money trails behind them. They decide what sorts of skills they will need to do the job they want, what sort of weapon is fitting, how to get away with it, and most importantly who to target. I think if I were a criminal I'd throw all of my MA experience out the window unless something went wrong with my plan and rely mostly on a handgun, because I'd be more worried about how to get away without getting caught then how to deal with it if I *DID* get caught. At least that's how my mind would work, so I'm guessing that with most criminals there's a similar mindset. Also, seeing how most robberies on the news nowadays are still commited with handguns, I don't know how much of an effect there could have been. I mean there might be some effect on crime statistics, but for the most part I don't see any crazed Bruce Lee fanatics trying to hold up convenience stores with nunchuks.

    (edited for clarification on certain points)
    Last edited by IMightBeWrong; 12/22/2008 4:34pm at .
  3. 3moose1 is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/22/2008 4:37pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: MCMAP, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well, i think they choose guns because someone's not gonna fight back, and you can avoid some attention if you're good.

    If you start clinching and kneeing while saying, "GIVE ME YOUR MONEY AND I WON'T HURT YOU" people tend to take notice...

    PROOF that I'm not a completely useless poster:
    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...0&postcount=58


    Quote Originally Posted by Cy Q. Faunce
    3moose1 is correct. Sig THAT, you fucker.

    Quote Originally Posted by sochin101 View Post
    I went out with a delightful young woman who was on a regimen of pills that made her taste of burned onions.
    That is not conducive to passionate cunnilingus, my friend, let me assure you.
    Quote Originally Posted by HappyOldGuy View Post
    I agree with moosey
  4. Hooded Justice is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/22/2008 4:52pm


     Style: Justice/Firearms

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by zaohu
    I mean there might be some effect on crime statistics, but for the most part I don't see any crazed Bruce Lee fanatics trying to hold up convenience stores with nunchuks.

    (edited for clarification on certain points)
    So you missed the last couple stories about sword wielding retards in malls etc? I know there were at least 2 last year but they are definately the minority. I get where you are coming from. I suppose I am wondering more about the people who decide that a gun is the proper response to a problem, like when a nutter gets all road raged and decides that shooting the guy honking behind him is the best solution. Or maybe people looking for self or home defense. Guns as self defense get a decent amount of advertisement as does MA, but with MA being more prevelant in media and pop culture, maybe instead of buying the little 9mm for the purse, they go train judo instead leading to the headlines "Woman defends against would be mugger by throwing him on his head" as opposed to "Woman shoots would be mugger" or "Mugger shoots would be hero with own gun".
  5. alex is offline
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    STOP POSTING!

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    Posted On:
    12/22/2008 4:55pm

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by zaohu
    I'm no expert, but here's my input: The thing that makes criminals so dangerous is the fact that they think things through before committing a crime on most occasions.
    i would argue that most criminals DONT think things through very well.
  6. Gbemi is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/22/2008 4:57pm


     Style: BJJ (faixa branca)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I don't think there is a correlation, and if there was, it would be a negative one.

    In my neck of the woods, crime is at a forty year low yet there are no shortages of martial arts schools.

    Gun laws have been enforced more lately (three years minimum for mere possesion of an un-registered firearm). Not to mention the time you get if you brandish/use it.

    I think that would make a criminal brush up on his Bruce Lee moves more than popularity of martial arts.
  7. MrGalt is online now
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    Posted On:
    12/22/2008 10:35pm


     Style: Seidokaikan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooded Justice
    I suppose I am wondering more about the people who decide that a gun is the proper response to a problem, like when a nutter gets all road raged and decides that shooting the guy honking behind him is the best solution...

    "Mugger shoots would be hero with own gun".
    HJ, you're kind of sounding anti-gun here. Don't you think the problem is people who think that violence is the solution to road rage at all? I'd rather teach people when violence is and is not a good idea than try to modify their means of applying it.

    As for that last quote, when was the last time you saw that headline? I mean, I hear about kids finding the family gun on occasion and there were a couple of high-profile shooting range accidents this year, but the anti-gun lobby tends to portray your average mugger as able to snatch pistols away from little old ladies like Steve Seagal on PCP.

    I'd love to have some LEOs and even better, Correctional Officers on this thread who have some firsthand accounts from criminals who get caught on how much forethought they put into these things. That's a lot better than any theories from those of us in the peanut gallery.
  8. Permalost is online now
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    12/23/2008 1:06am

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Some criminals are fond of pepper spray as a weapon- that way there's no murder/assault with a deadly weapon charges, and psychologically its easier to spray someone in the face instead of shooting or stabbing them. Its also a weapon thats a lot cheaper and easier to obtain than a gun.
  9. Hooded Justice is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/23/2008 2:30am


     Style: Justice/Firearms

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MrGalt
    HJ, you're kind of sounding anti-gun here. Don't you think the problem is people who think that violence is the solution to road rage at all? I'd rather teach people when violence is and is not a good idea than try to modify their means of applying it.
    Hehe my 2 1911's and car-15 would disagree with the anti gun idea. The idea is that guns and violence in media is what gives impressionable minds the idea that guns and violence in society are ok. Typical parental crap but I suppose to a point true. I agree that teaching when violence is appropriate is the best idea but that is putting a lot of faith in the general populace and some people just want to start ****. I suppose the best example of what I am talking about would be that one nut from the latest Ultimate Fighter show that was super tempermental and started a couple scraps in the house and in the end got his ass kicked.

    That guy because he was a fighter when he got angry resorted to using his fists. Lets assume for the sake of argument that he became a fighter purely because of the popularity of MMA. Now had he not taken that path and trained in a martial art, that same guy with that same temper might say have a gun because he has the same reason for wanting to be a fighter as he does for owning a gun...to look tough and instead of start a fight pull the gun out and accidentally let one go or just unload.

    So perhaps the best question is, do the rates of gun violence perpitrated by dumbshits go down as the rate of physical violence on the part of dumbshits claiming to be trained in martial arts goes up?

    edit: And the example of the mugger trained in something like MT was going under the assumption that in order to take your wallet they would use their MA training to hit you and get an assault charge rather than point a gun at you and get an assault with a deadly weapon charge.
    Last edited by Hooded Justice; 12/23/2008 2:33am at .
  10. adouglasmhor is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/23/2008 4:16am


     Style: Les Mills Bodycombat™

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex
    i would argue that most criminals DONT think things through very well.
    I would agree, most crims are thick fuckers who do not see the consequences of their action on themselves and others. They believe in **** like luck and feel persecuted. They actualy are sometimes persecuted but only because they ask for it.

    Random ancedotal "evidence" on a bus back from the City Centre one day I watched a couple of junkie neds discussing junkie ned 1's hat.

    jn 2 "is that a new hat"
    jn1 "yes the old one was bad luck" (jn1 is wearing a bright yellow baseball hat)
    jn2 "I always think of you wearing the bright orange one"
    jn1 "it was bad luck, every time I did something wearing that hat I got lifted"
    jn2 "what about the new one?"
    jn1 "I think it's bad luck too, got lifted yesterday with it and I was well away when they stopped me".

    The thick fucker hadn't worked out that every time he stole something the descrition satrted with the image of his dayglo hat perched on top of his pin head like a pea on a drum. Added to the cops being able to spot him a mile away and the fact that his hat drew attention to him as soon as he went into a shop or whatever, the guy was a criminal mastermind.
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